steam tank

Darkblade83 · Post by **Darkblade83** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:45 am

ok i just picked up the new empire book. i actually started the game with empire then moved into dark elves. i dont have a ton of mini's but i thought that for what i do have i should just get the new book. looking through it i notice the rules for the steam tank and i got to wondering. Is taking a steam tank frowned upon?

Azure · Post by **Azure** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:33 am

1 is not, 2 is very questionable, 2 combined with a Imperial Dragon or a War Altar is the basis for all cheesy lists coming from the empire.. so basically 1 is not as it is very managable, 2 is getting there and 2 plus what I said earlier=last edition SAD or RAF

-Rex

Darkblade83 · Post by **Darkblade83** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:46 am

ok cool just needed some perspective. i can imagine fielding 2. not only is that insane but a ton of money. i mean come on 65 dollars i thought the land raider was high

Lowcash · Post by **Lowcash** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:17 am

If some one pulled out 2 steam tanks out on me, I would walk around the table and donkey punch them. Then I would look for another game else where, but that is just me.

Darkblade83 · Post by **Darkblade83** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:32 am

Darkblade83 wrote:ok cool just needed some perspective. i can imagine fielding 2. not only is that insane but a ton of money. i mean come on 65 dollars i thought the land raider was high

oops, i ment to type i CAN'T imagine fielding two as this changes my point of veiw entirely

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

i don´t know all the rules of a steam tank, but i do know that armies like dark elves have a really hard time even playing against one. if someone came along and fielded two i think lowcash´s idea of dealing with that seems to be quite a good one. if someone throws a dragon in (i always hated GW for giving empire a dragon - i mean, come on: how are humans going to control a dragon - elves, ok. chaos, ok. but orcs only have lindwurms. and it just is nowhere near reasonable to give empire dragons - except that the empire now really can field anything all other armies can).
but i am not going to play against more than one stank. and i really don´t think that even fielding one is justifiable - we have a fantasty setting here, not the 18th century (and even then they did not have steam-operated tanks), and even though guns and cannons are cool for some, mechanical horses really go too far IMO, and so do tanks. i´m not gonna kill everyone who is going to field a stank, but you can be sure that i won´t appreciate it.

HUZZAH!

Darkblade83 · Post by **Darkblade83** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:58 am

yeah I hear ya. the whole dragon thing really surprised me too. I don’t think i would ever use one. as for the steam tank its kind of up it the air. the empire are a renaissance time period so it makes sense on one hand. but on the other its 300pts, a rare, and 65 dollars! I still cant get over the sticker shock. I think that I may get one and field it when it sounds like a good idea. against armies that are weaker like DEs or skaven I would tend to agree that fielding one is a little wrong. but against armies like dwarves, chaos, or HEs I could care less and would probably whip one out. of course against dwarves it would probably die after a turn of shooting.

see a lot of people agree that empire really isn’t all that powerful. sure it looks good on paper but when its on the table it starts to fumble. I considered getting one just for the shock value. its not really that insane offensively but it adds confusion and doubt in the opponent. that along can be enough to win.

Skazna · Post by **Skazna** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:00 am

And I know someone in our tournament scene that fields 2 and a war alter, and I want to play him too

Count zero · Post by **Count zero** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:27 am

if you do come up against a stank the the RBT is quite good at dealing with it, single bolt, no AS and d3 wounds, also dont forget +1 to hit large taregt.
once you take a few wounds of a ST it becmones much less effetcive

the other issue is that currently the interpretation seems to be that you have to kill it to get the vp's, you dont get 1/2 for taking it down to 1/2 wounds so it great vp denial.

they may have to faq this point as there a lots of arguments on the vp's for it.

Darkblade83 · Post by **Darkblade83** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:57 am

that seems weird about the VPs. what was the reason backing up the whole you dont get 1/2 for 1/2? IDK the steam tank is tough. 1+ save, resistant to impact hits, 10W T6, good ranged weapons, and a ton of impact hits if you land them. you would have to be a dick to not give the opponent anything for killing at least 1/2 of the wounds for what you get to do with the tank.

Scareypete · Post by **Scareypete** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:37 pm

to counter the Stank you need the 4 RBT list... or Lore of Shadows... Pit of Shade spell... Initiative test for Stank SUCKS!!!

Problem is that the Stank features in the Empire Mega Cheese list...

Karl Franz on Dragon.
L2 Wizard
L2 Wizard
Stank
Stank
Cannon x4
Units of Hand gunners with a free company detachment and a halberdier detachment
Huntsmen ot marchblock

Or the even cheeiser list IMO if you plan to just shoot or magic them off th etable. Subsittute Balthasar Gelt for Karl Franz... and add a ton more Handgunners or a Unit of Knights.

If you can get Pit of Shades and enough Casting dice and Mage hunters to make it work... it is a nasty Steam tank eater.

I lack BRB and Empire books atm... so If I am wrong about the spell from Shadows that eats units on failed I test... or wrong that STANK is somehow immune to that... please politely correct me.

Count zero · Post by **Count zero** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:44 pm

Darkblade83 wrote:that seems weird about the VPs. what was the reason backing up the whole you dont get 1/2 for 1/2? IDK the steam tank is tough. 1+ save, resistant to impact hits, 10W T6, good ranged weapons, and a ton of impact hits if you land them. you would have to be a dick to not give the opponent anything for killing at least 1/2 of the wounds for what you get to do with the tank.

the empire book states that you treat the stank as a war machine and in brb its says you dont get 1/2 points on warmachines.

i am sure its an oversight, but i think at the recent uk gt's they played it that way.

however i would be suprised if that is what the designer intended, as you could potentially deal out 18 wounds vs a t6 as 1+ target and get squat for it. very harsh.

Count zero · Post by **Count zero** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:47 pm

@ scarypete, i know its not offical but the ukgt ruled that the pit doesnt effect the stank, although the hand of dust does

Lord adrianus · Post by **Lord adrianus** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:59 pm

Darkblade83 wrote: I think that I may get one and field it when it sounds like a good idea. against armies that are weaker like DEs or skaven I would tend to agree that fielding one is a little wrong.

Do you think skaven are weak! I hate playing Skaven. They're just overpowered

The buoyancy of water · Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:04 pm

@Lord Adrianus: Skaven are NOT overpowered! People can make crazily powerful lists with them, but the same can be said for nearly any army (maybe even every army).

Back on topic I think the best way to deal with a STank would be to ignore it. Worry about the rest of the army first, it will be far easier to kill unless you are playing a tough Empire army. Deal with other, more important, threats first before concentrating on the STank.

Cheers,
Dave

Azure · Post by **Azure** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:48 pm

TBOW: The Problem with ignoring it, if some1 brings a S-Tank they usually have another meaning youta 600VP that you cannot get without a lot of work and they each have a cannon on top and the potential to do 5d3 impact hits... its rather nasty

And yes, PoS does not work on the s-tank in the UK though I would still argue it in the U.S.

And ya, it is a war machine and I truly believe GW meant for it to be... Otherwise why would they put that rule?

-Rex

Darkblade83 · Post by **Darkblade83** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:59 pm

Do you think skaven are weak! I hate playing Skaven. They're just overpowered[/quote]

as an army as a whole no i dont think they are weak. but for their strength vs a steam tank i do think they are weak. they have a few high points like jizzails, warp lightnight cannons, and rattling guns but a smart empire player will know those are the first to go. given the steam tanks fire power combine with the rest of the armies fire power you could probably wipe them pretty easily. oddly enough i played my friends skaven with my dark elves and though i was grossly outnumbered 7:1 it was still a close game due to their poor leadership and randomness. so i would say they are right on par.

Count zero · Post by **Count zero** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:04 pm

like they put in the firey demagouge rule

i think they ment it to count as a war machine howver i think they forgot the bit about warmachine VP rules at the time. Most war mahcines are much lower points cost, are only 3 wounds and tend to die when they suffer a few wounds as its the crew that get killed too, but you cant kill ST crews.

i know st's lose effectivness as they lose wounds, which is farily uncommon, but thing like dragons give away 1/2 vp's and i think they are a better compairison.

Darkblade83 · Post by **Darkblade83** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:39 pm

more then likely the case im sure. of course if i had a dime for every time i've said GW needs a proof reader i would probably own their whole product line :roll:

all in all i would see no problem making it a house rule that if you wound 1/2 you get 1/2. after all the currenct rules may work fine for other war machines but the other warmachines also have no save, 3 wounds, and are usually between 100-150 pts. quite a difference!

Scareypete · Post by **Scareypete** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:31 pm

@ Count Zero Those Cheeky Buggers!! Really... ALl the empire player has to do is anticipate and defend against enemy magic focusing on his stank.

Dark Elves have to bust their arse to prepare for every potential outcome... Most of us think ahead of time.... is the chariot gonna survive if tanks will be there? Will the Manticore be effective or will it get shot down... do I want it to get shot so other things can get in... do I want a Flying circus or a bunch of sorc... Thats what list building is about...

So what if half the armies in the old world can cast pit of shade... ALL the armies can dispell it. Its so dependant on randomness that it makes up for the fact that it is an instant kill on things like the stank... (although technically not an instant kill becuase a Roll of 1's still saves you.)
Its a randomly chosen spell.. might not even get it....
It could miscast...
THe caster who has it could be killed
It could simply fizzle It has a high casting value
Nasty dispell items that remove spells from memory...

But until I see offcial GW errata in Print for the US I will roll on Lore of Shadows every time I see a Stank on the Table.

There are plenty of other lores that Ignore armor saves as well...

Azure · Post by **Azure** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:47 pm

Pete, since you live in New Hampshire then it is up to the tournament leader to decide of PoS works on the S-tanks. As of right now for UK GT's (and notice, this is just for UK, not for europe in general or aus) the PoS does NOT work on the S-tanks... Though Hand of Dust does, go figure

-Rex

[llct]kain · Post by **[llct]kain** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:48 pm

If some one pulled out 2 steam tanks out on me, I would walk around the table and donkey punch them.

Oh ho - I thought the same, and then had a game vs. 2 ST and a waraltar.
It was great fun and I think the list is tough but not too cheesy. The ST could damage them selfs, or a lucky hit with RBT renders them useless. If they suffered 3 or 4 wounds the ST is done.
Ok, I was lucky to have the GoP with me which was the best asset against this list :-)

But I outnumbered the empire army 2:1 - as Druchii.

So best bet are single bolts and GoP.

Pit of Shades is nearly useless, going on 12+, and only affecting on 4+ because the ST is too big to be covered completly, then DS of the enemy...

Lowcash · Post by **Lowcash** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:42 pm

Here is a steam tank for $55:
http://www.scifigenre.com/itemDetail.as ... RQ10LQPRSW

and another for (vintage if you don't mind) for $39.95
http://cgi.ebay.com/Warhammer-Empire-St ... dZViewItem