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Executioner Rumour 
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Beastmaster
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Quote:
Yes swordmasters can kill next to anything and I don't like that they are so uber either but you can kill them. Missles, magic, breath weapons, chariots. You could hit them in the flank with a monster or something that his 2 attacks couldn't possibly kill, or the flank with a static CR unit. If he gets so lucky that everything seems to bounce off them, then ignore them and go around them.


Easier said than done, but you dont realise that having to go around them -= quite badly restricting your movement, so yeah for that alone the Swordmasters are doing their job and are being their points worth, especially if its only 90 pts.

In the 6th Ed Swordmasters had the avantage over any Dark Elf regiment on the charge and in subsequent rounds of combat (except Witch Elves) Which is absoloutely correct imo balance wise.

Quote:
Fluffwise Exes are little above City Guard, just happens to be Har Ganeth, no matter what Elite mark one may have put upon them due to their awesome-looking armour.


Seriously what are you talking about, the 6th edition DE book itself literally says that Executioners are highly Elite infantry and foremost of the warriors of the witch king.

Quote:
On another note, post-revision the Druchii have had a real advantage against the Asur. If you thought our units are overpriced, just take a look at the 6th Ed. HE Army Book. They were loooong overdue.



Oh you mean the martial Nagarythe kindred having an advantage over the other High ELves in combat? Oh you mean like in the fluff? :roll:

The Revision wasnt so much as a revision, but a few tweaks here and there. Overrated imho.

Yeah but thats an important factor in why people actually choose armies you know?over another? because they feel it will give them an advantage in a particular phase of the game.

Asur had better cavalry and magic. We had better shooting, and around about the same for movement and Dark Elves were generally better infantry wise. I thought that yeah Asur have better Cavalry and magic,but at least Druchii have them in combat....WRONG! and DE shooting aint winning you games on its own bub.

6th Edition WItch Elves and Executioners (not Black Guard) were right in terms of performance vs points cost vs High Elves.

Now , no matter how you may dress it up, they (and Witch Elves especially) hold only a fraction of their effectiveness now in comparison to how they used to be. So Dark ELf Elite Infantry is sidelined in favour for stuff like Corsairs, dark RIders, Chariots, Magic. Now I dont have much of a problem with that, but I do with Witch Elves and the lack of ability of other Elites prevents me from wanting to try and buy them. Games Worshop having them still Blow in 7th Edition rules? Get ready to have warehouses of unsold Druchii ELite infantry is all I can say.
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Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:47 am
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Executioner
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Wow, this would be a huge thing. Alongside Universal Hatred these guys would go from 2/3 hits * 2/3 wound (supposing T4) to about 4/5 wounds. It´s bl**dy huge!

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Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:50 am
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Dragon Lord
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I still believe dark elves rule in movement phase
and movement phase is where battles are won
If Swordmasters bother you, ignore them, they might be scary in combat but they are still slow moving block of infantry

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Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:34 pm
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Handmaiden wrote:
Now , no matter how you may dress it up, they (and Witch Elves especially) hold only a fraction of their effectiveness now in comparison to how they used to be. So Dark ELf Elite Infantry is sidelined in favour for stuff like Corsairs, dark RIders, Chariots, Magic. Now I dont have much of a problem with that, but I do with Witch Elves and the lack of ability of other Elites prevents me from wanting to try and buy them. Games Worshop having them still Blow in 7th Edition rules? Get ready to have warehouses of unsold Druchii ELite infantry is all I can say.

Claiming that the coming of Asur turned our Elite infantry from useful into rubbish is tantamount to madness - no single army can influence the meta that much. :?

I understand your WAAC attitude, but if the troops aggravate you too much you might consider switching armies :lol:

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Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
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Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:06 pm
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Khel wrote:
I hope not, then our Executioner will be nothing but Monster Hurters. Executioners don't harm animals, how sick can you get!

Ahem, I heard that they were creating a new rule. Though I can be wrong, but I just hope your feeling is wrong Blueon462 :)


What do you call humans then?

All joking aide, if they can would it as if it was light as a feathor (we're talking about a six and a half foot/2metor long sword people) then it would probbly woork out simalar to the Dark Drauich of power.

A two handed weapon, +2 Strength.

Black Gaurd upgrades will be neded as well, but that's for another discuttion, and another time (although it be cool if they worked themselves into a frenzy when they see HE.)


Last edited by Saint of m on Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:43 am
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Arnold Layne
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Handmaiden wrote:
... you dont realise that having to go around [Swordmasters] -= quite badly restricting your movement...


... unless you plan to avoid them anyway. I would. If the Swordmasters of Hoeth consider it a worthy endeavour to chase my Dark Elves all over the board, then I wish them luck. I think, Handmaiden, you might be letting the statistics crush your imagination. The statistics are indeed against us at the moment; but there are many ways of getting around that. Mostly in the movement phase, the one phase where Dark Elves excel, but also in shooting or magic, where we are at least competitive against HE.

I do hope they are in fact creating a new rule for Execs, as KB - though flufftastic - does not cut mustard. Or High Elves.

Layne.

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Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:40 am
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Quote:
Claiming that the coming of Asur turned our Elite infantry from useful into rubbish is tantamount to madness - no single army can influence the meta that much


I was talking High Elf specific , for the most part, but I wouldnt use Black Guard as they are overpriced, Executioners maybe (against non High ELves) . and witch Elves are always in my army.

And I dont know what WAAC is.


Quote:
and movement phase is where battles are won


For me , not so much as in the Magic Phase. Victory depends on kicking butt there when you field morathi.

Quote:
but there are many ways of getting around that. Mostly in the movement phase, the one phase where Dark Elves excel, but also in shooting or magic, where we are at least competitive against HE.


Eh heh. You dont get it, shooting and Magic has always been very important, esp magic , bc i use morathi and not a highborn.

So im not complaining that i cant win, Im complaining about the redundancy of the coolest units, only the comparative inadequacy of Witch ELves has any effect in my own army, so try not to think this is all about me ok.

I never use executioners and I am arguing for them to get better. Why? So that I may be tempted to try them out at least, and not have to just paint up chariots, chariota, and more chariots.

Quote:
Claiming that the coming of Asur turned our Elite infantry from useful into rubbish is tantamount to madness - no single army can influence the meta that much.


Its called Power Creep.

Quote:
I understand your WAAC attitude, but if the troops aggravate you too much you might consider switching armies


Only If youre buying :roll:

Note : In my standard army only 1x Witch Elves/1x Spearmen/1x cold one regiment cant shoot or do magic. So dont tell me to go shooting /magic XD

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Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:52 am
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Handmaiden wrote:
Quote:
and movement phase is where battles are won


For me , not so much as in the Magic Phase. Victory depends on kicking butt there when you field morathi.

Do you honestly expect anyone to take this comment seriously?

Handmaiden wrote:
Quote:
Claiming that the coming of Asur turned our Elite infantry from useful into rubbish is tantamount to madness - no single army can influence the meta that much.


Its called Power Creep.

Going in circles now. What other 7th Ed. army are we so hugely disadvantaged against, then?

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
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Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:40 am
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Shade

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It would make Executioners incredibly dangerous and may even make up (partly) for their High Elf equivalents having aw sf, afterall having strike first is no guarantee of a successful kill: you still have to hit and wound first.

I still would avoid Sword Masters in close combat though..afterall, it is hard to fight back if you are already dead......


Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:56 pm
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Raneth wrote:
Claiming that the coming of Asur turned our Elite infantry from useful into rubbish is tantamount to madness - no single army can influence the meta that much. :?
Played against Dwarves much?

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Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:25 pm
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Quote:
Going in circles now. What other 7th Ed. army are we so hugely disadvantaged against, then?


Tree based woodies are very hard to beat as are stank/walter based empire.

Obviously we arent at a disadvantage against opponents who run soft fluffy lists. The only thing that keeps us remotely competetive is the Dragon and we all know thats a crutch.


Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:34 pm
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Cold One Knight

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Auto-Wound and Ignore Armour saves on the charge?


Nice...

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Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:30 pm
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Brolock
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Lord_Jimmy_ wrote:
Auto-Wound and Ignore Armour saves on the charge?


Nice...

...Dreams. It will never happen.

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Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:08 pm
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Arquinsiel wrote:
Raneth wrote:
Claiming that the coming of Asur turned our Elite infantry from useful into rubbish is tantamount to madness - no single army can influence the meta that much. :?
Played against Dwarves much?
Yes. They were rock hard in their old incarnation as well; I don't have more problems since they've been updated. Dwarves will always be tough as nails, no choice but to accept it.

Venkh wrote:
Tree based woodies are very hard to beat as are stank/walter based empire.
The new WE book made them competitive, and I'm only glad for them. I view their Tree much as our RBTs - considered mandatory by a lot of players since it fills a gap in the list as a whole. (Way to go, Nags.)

As for STank: horribly imbalanced but not unbeatable. I find it comes down to Karl and his Dragon all too much.

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
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Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:29 pm
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Sounds absolutly cool. Especialy the auto wound. I cant wait to get my hands on a ste of those. Too bad they have to be soo expensive :( , but i guess thats the price that you pay for playing such a wonderful game. :D

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Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:47 am
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Quote:
Do you honestly expect anyone to take this comment seriously?


Yes. Duh. If a magic heavy army has bad magic phases, then a loss is almost guaranteed. Movement is most important in armies based around close combat, not Magic or shooting as you would usually have to do against High Elves to win. Movement is important still, but not as important to me as getting the big magic points sink in my army to actually pay off. That was my original point and if you cant take it seriously then nuts to you frankly.

Quote:
Going in circles now. What other 7th Ed. army are we so hugely disadvantaged against, then?


Well besides High Elves, I would say, Dwarves, Wood Elves, Brettonians, Empire , Skaven, and Vampire Counts.

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Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:30 am
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The Exiled One
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Raneth wrote:
Venkh wrote:
Tree based woodies are very hard to beat as are stank/walter based empire.
The new WE book made them competitive, and I'm only glad for them. I view their Tree much as our RBTs - considered mandatory by a lot of players since it fills a gap in the list as a whole. (Way to go, Nags.)
I'd agree with this. Trees are not really as hard to beat as the Stank/WAlter combo. Sure, the dual Treeman with BSB can be a tough nut to crack, but your general tree-based army is nowhere near as powerful as the Stank army.

And what was that "Way to go, nags." about? I am a firm believer of non-trees in my Wood Elf armies. I think they're powerful, and thus I find ways to win without them. I like the challenge :P

~ Nag

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Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:29 pm
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Dragon Lord
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If you don't control movement phase, your awesome overpowered magic phase dies in turn 3 at most.
At least that's my experience.

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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
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Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:47 pm
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The Exiled One
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Your awesome overpowered magic phase might be what controls the movement phase though...

~ Nag

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Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:53 pm
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Dragon Lord
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As Slaanesh mage, yes, as Dark Magic sorceress... not really, Dominion is too limited.

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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
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Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:28 pm
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Post 
Both are very important to victory for a magic heavy army, I said movement was important still, just less so than with a "combat" army.

both are important as you still have to get into spell position/, screen, stay out of range of certain enemy fire , but magic phase is slightly more important to me. as that is what the army is based around.

The movement phase is the preparation, but that can all fall apart with bad magic phases. However I'm counting the seconds until the new Dark magic comes out :o

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Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:59 pm
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Dalamar wrote:
As Slaanesh mage, yes, as Dark Magic sorceress... not really, Dominion is too limited.
Spells that affect movement is not the only spells that control the movement phase. Having a powerful mage in a terrain clearing will make the opponent think twice before entering, ans he knows magic missiles will rain upon him like a looks on a nudist in downtown New York.

And you forgot the Lore of Shadows :)

~ Nag

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Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:13 pm
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My earlier comment was praise for you NOT using a Tree... like I leave the RBTs at home :)
Nagathi wrote:
And you forgot the Lore of Shadows :)
And then you go and say something like this! :lol:

@ Handmaiden: not every DE army has Morathi in it. :?

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Vryala Naïlo - WS5 / S5 / T5 / D5 / I4

Equipment: bastard sword of Speed, shield of Defence, repeater (20/20), spear, mace, dagger, Armour of Night, SDC, whip, blowpipe (9/12)
Inventory: amulet of Strength, grapple, grenade x0, smoke x11, map, mage hand, sleep oil x8, cure balms x20, Yori's balms x1, winter gear, old kit, lion mask
Mount: Dark Steed (Blanky), barding, talisman of Protection
Gold: 1735
Skills: Defensive Fighting, Anarin Sarath (2), Basic Ride
Class: Warrior


Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:24 pm
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Dragon Lord
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and again, magic is too unreliable to control anything, unless it's slaanesh magic, which is way over the top.
But that's just my experience.

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Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:39 pm
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Cold One Knight

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Isnt this about executioner rumours?

Im losing track reading this.

@ Handmaiden: You sure do like to wander off topic :D Not the first time Ive seen it.

I feel as long as they make them very powerful on the charge and weak thereafter it would appease most. Maybe letting us take them in units of 5+ and really upping their rules and points cost would be cool too. Make them little uber units.

Anyways this is mostly a call for a return to discussing Executioner Rumours.

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Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:12 am
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