DE Coming in August - Rumor speculation and debate

Dictator · Post by **Dictator** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:53 pm

Given the amount of rumours this guy have churned out in the past, I`d say that his "sucess rate" is pretty impressive. To make a few very recent examples, he was the first to tell us about the wargulf and the blood knights. He is so well informed that even the guys at my local GW-shop use him to know what`s coming, as he usually knows it a month or two before them.

Is this "Harry" figure a GW staffer putting it out purposefully to see what we will say on our own forums? If so GREAT idea! Keep it coming "Harry," or whatever you want to call yourself.

@Infraz: I don't think stupidity will leave us. Even if we have a thousand years to cull the herd I don't think GW will give us that much

Silverheimdall · Post by **Silverheimdall** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:17 pm

Infrazael Draennonssraav wrote:This is what I'd like to see changed to Cold One Knights.

-Speed 8
-Strength 4
-No Stupidity

Maybe raise them to 39pts (you guys think that's fair? too much? too little?) or something around that range.

I don't think they should get S4 for the knights, the Cold ones already have it.

Azure · Post by **Azure** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:25 pm

39 points is way to much... WAY to much. I would rather take Dragon Princes and they are @ 30points... ya

-Rex

Lyhne · Post by **Lyhne** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:38 pm

limenix wrote:No need my friend.
If the Book should be fantastic i would be so happy that i'll print my post , eat it and then post a 1000 apologies to GW for lack of faith.

Quoted!

Venkh · Post by **Venkh** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:51 pm

Is this "Harry" figure a GW staffer putting it out purposefully to see what we will say on our own forums?

Probably best not to ask or speculate about sources, just look at the posters track record and make up your own mind about the reliability of the latest info. There are certain posters who are correct time and again. On Warseer Brimstone and Harry are almost never wrong.

Uncovering sources has led to sackings in the past. We dont want that to happen do we.

Silverheimdall · Post by **Silverheimdall** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:39 am

Azure wrote:39 points is way to much... WAY to much. I would rather take Dragon Princes and they are @ 30points... ya

-Rex

Yeah 2A at S3, S5 on the Charge and a S3 mount (Always strikes first matters not for this unit)
vs 1A at S3, S5 on the charge and a S4 mount (stupidity and M7 instead of M8)

So there's definitely a need for a small change to CoKnights, but S4 would make them cost a lot more.

Kargan daemonclaw · Post by **Kargan daemonclaw** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:49 am

SilverHeimdall wrote:
Yeah 2A at S3, S5 on the Charge and a S3 mount (Always strikes first matters not for this unit)
vs 1A at S3, S5 on the charge and a S4 mount (stupidity and M7 instead of M8)

So there's definitely a need for a small change to CoKnights, but S4 would make them cost a lot more.

You need to add in that COK also cause fear and Dragon Princes don't although they get immunity to fire.

I'd like to see COK riders get +1 A rather than a boost to the cold ones.

Azure · Post by **Azure** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:18 am

But Kargan, then they would be nearly identical to Dragon Princes. What needs to happen is they should get S4 with movement 8 on cold ones with possibly 2 attacks on the cold ones. Lets call it, 30 points. Then they would hit slightly harder then Dragon Princes BUT would be stupid and imo fear rarely does anything!

-REx

Aleraen · Post by **Aleraen** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:21 am

I am definately leaning towards Harry, hastings, and some of the others on Warseer as GW plants. Two reasons for this: GW is incredibly sensitive to leaked information, in some occassions even acting back-asswords to ensure uncontrolled leaks are either taken care of or proven wrong (miniatures never being released or "permanently delayed", and army-books as well); and some of the pictures -- including the one quite a while ago of the Lion Chariot, taken in front of a GW exec's desk -- are obviously put out by the GW staff.

Of course, that doesn't mean they are unreliable. Simply that the information they provide are intentional leaks, be they wrong or right.

Azure · Post by **Azure** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:36 am

I disagree, just because its a GW pic floating around or info from a GW person doesnt mean we have any reason to assume GW wants us to know that. With hopefully thousands of playtesters (Though more likely they just go to the local zoo and borrow ten or twelve monkeys...) There is a lot of info going around. And rumors dont really hurt their profits and I cant think of a product that had pictures of the models leaked and never came out...

-Rex

Kherdain de'arazin · Post by **Kherdain de'arazin** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:15 am

I disagree, just because its a GW pic floating around or info from a GW person doesnt mean we have any reason to assume GW wants us to know that. With hopefully thousands of playtesters (Though more likely they just go to the local zoo and borrow ten or twelve monkeys...) There is a lot of info going around. And rumors dont really hurt their profits and I cant think of a product that had pictures of the models leaked and never came out...

-Rex

Wasn't there a leaked photo of new Lothern Sea Guard? I believe one of them had a peg leg, but those models were never released.

I could just be confused though.

Aleraen · Post by **Aleraen** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:43 am

As well as the new Azhag on Wyvern that is never going to be released because it spread across the net like wild-fire pre-release. I think the Seaguard thing was wishful thinking; I've never actually seen that picture.

Silverheimdall · Post by **Silverheimdall** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:47 am

Azure wrote:But Kargan, then they would be nearly identical to Dragon Princes. What needs to happen is they should get S4 with movement 8 on cold ones with possibly 2 attacks on the cold ones. Lets call it, 30 points. Then they would hit slightly harder then Dragon Princes BUT would be stupid and imo fear rarely does anything!

-REx

If you want 2 Attacks at S4 on the cold ones, Base S4 on the Knights (S6 on the charge), Movement 8.

Yeah, lets call it 40 points.

Chaos Knights are what.. 45 pts? and have S5, 2+ armor, M7, :D8, no fear no stupidity and I think thats the price without a mark of a chaos god.

Azure · Post by **Azure** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:52 am

I think CK might be a little cheaper but it doesnt change much. They have strength 5 all the time with a higher AS. As for fear, it counter attacks stupidity a little bit so i guess 34? I'm just trying to make them viable compared to other heavy cav. Hell id rather take Knights of the Realm or Vanilla Empire Knights lol

-Rex

Victor simic · Post by **Victor simic** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:55 am

As far as doubts over the quality of the new Army Book, or how competitive the Dark elves will be, I firmly believe that they will be VERY impressive.

I can understand people being pessemistic, and having doubts. After all, there WAS an official revision for our last AB, and that was a first. That told us that the original AB left a bit to be desired.

Nevertheless, the Druchii are STILL a dangerous Army to face in the hands of a competent General, they`re just not as obvious to handle as some other Armies, and they do have some glaring weaknessess.

My thoughts are that GW will have done their utmost to ensure that the mistakes of the last AB are not repeated. Despite the naysayers, I truely believe that between their worthy stable of gamers/writers, GW will come up with a very special Army Book.

After all, they DO want to sell miniatures. That`s their business. It makes no sense to create a sub-standard Army which no one wants to use. Especially after the last Army book.

I`ve yet to see a really weak Army come out in the last year. O&G`s was a bit disappointing, but Empire, Wood Elves, High Elves, and it`s looking like Vampire Counts are ALL competitive lists.

I see no reason why the Dark Elves wont be awesome.

Heh · Post by **Heh** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:53 am

CoK at 39 pts???? I hope it doesn't happen because they are after all only T3 with a 2+ armour save no matter what other bonuses they would give them.

I do expect to see eternal hatred vs HE (which is fluffy and I have no complaints over it) and universal hatred (which I think it's UNFLUFFY and I juz can't agree that it is a gd idea).

ASF for temple of khaine troops is cool and totally fluffy. Maybe ASF for execs is too much to ask for, but I think witches and assassins should have ASF. I hoping to see witches with a 5+ ward save and hag queen heroes!!!!

And my biggest wish: to see DE have a army-wide rule that negates HE ASF. :twisted:

Haha. Ok, probably not happening.

I do expect to see minor adjustments to the list. But I am actually worried that GW might be doing away with the "2 for 1 slot" rules. I wouldn't actually mind having 1 special slot per CoC, but my rare slots are definitely for RBTS. The hydra and BG would have a hard time competing for my rares as compared to the RBTs (which to me, is pretty a no-brainer).

MINIS WISHLIST

Noble plastic kit
Sorc plastic kit
New hydra(the current one looks like a dog and too small to cause terror)
New CoK
New PLASTIC dark riders.

I guess we would hear more rumours by May/June.

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:03 am

HeH wrote:And my biggest wish: to see DE have a army-wide rule that negates HE ASF. Haha. Ok, probably not happening.
.

That's easy ASF. It really only effects DE & WE so giving them the same rule as a blanket race trait just elevates the effectiveness of elves without effecting their standing with each other.

I would like to see asf only apply to the fromt and not apply to great weapons, but that's just me.

Azure · Post by **Azure** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:18 am

Rabid, Blanket ASF is not an option as it will resort to who rolled higher to decide who attacks first. Takes away even more of the tactics that ASF destroyed and it simply wont happen. If it does I will be permantely playing my BoC

Silverheimdall · Post by **Silverheimdall** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:51 am

The Asur book while better than the previous one is still just something they've thrown around and didn't put much thought into. Heck, the author prefered adding himself into the Item's fluff instead of checking for typos and holes in the stuff he wrote. (He aded a character named 'Temakador' which is an anagram of Adam Troke... )

I would hate to see the same thing happen with the Druchii book.
The Asrai book I don't really care... heheheh.

Anyway, ASF isn't as overpowering even against Asrai and Druchii.. and is probably the only reason the High Elf book is even considered 'better' than its previous one. And the guy who won the UK GT with 2k of High Elves didn't have anything to take advantage of ASF (Large unit of Dragon Princes and a Big Dragon along with the few support units he had with the points left).

Durloth · Post by **Durloth** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:50 am

Aleraen wrote:including the one quite a while ago of the Lion Chariot, taken in front of a GW exec's desk -- are obviously put out by the GW staff.

Not that I`m saying some of the information we`re getting isn`t intentional leaks; it is pretty basic PR in these internet-community times. I just want to point out that the pic of the Lion chariot was (supposedly) taken by a guy who was invited to GWHQ after winning the UKGT.

Limenix · Post by **Limenix** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:04 am

Victor Simic wrote:After all, they DO want to sell miniatures. That`s their business. It makes no sense to create a sub-standard Army which no one wants to use. Especially after the last Army book.

That is not very true.
See the community of D.net.We are all big supporters of Dark elves
dispite theyr bad armybook.
Most of us knew that we are buying a weak army but the fluff of the Druchii
made us oversee this.
I think this is true for all races.

Even if GW would make the new DE armybook as awfull as the current one , i would still buy all the new models.
I think GW knows this.

Lakissov · Post by **Lakissov** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:20 am

well, I am sure that there are quite many people out here who, like me, would hate to see our book too powerful. after all, we chose it for being a difficult army to handle and for imposing high requirements on the general, not despite this...

Venkh · Post by **Venkh** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:06 pm

Thing is, you can always build a characterful, challenging army for yourself even if the book contains overpowered options. Building an army that is tough to use should be something that a player can choose to do, not something mandated by the designer.

Lord tareq · Post by **Lord tareq** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:47 pm

No one wants to see their army become too powerful.
But there is a difference between an army that is just inherently weak but disguises it as "you need tactical skill to play well with this army" and an army that is competitive but actually designed to be played with finesse. I prefer the latter.

Extremor · Post by **Extremor** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:52 pm

@Lakissov
I dont want the druchii to be too powerful as well, but I didnt chose em for being difficult to play. I simply love the fluff. I dont care if the army I chose is powerful or not, but playing an army underaveragely powerful often leads to unsatisfying/boring army lists/games against powerful opponents like dwarfs or brets. Thats why I want a balanced and averagely powerful armybook.