DE Coming in August - Rumor speculation and debate

Saithis · Post by **Saithis** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:54 pm

Lakissov wrote:well, I am sure that there are quite many people out here who, like me, would hate to see our book too powerful. after all, we chose it for being a difficult army to handle and for imposing high requirements on the general, not despite this...

erm, nope - i choose it because all standard armies (like empire, high elves,orcs,...) were taken in our gaming group and as a total noob i liked the pictures and stories ("wow, i am playing a BAD-ASS army" - everyone likes the bad boys [and especially girls! *gg*] more than the normal dudes)!
when you are starting Warhammer Fantasy you don't care for strong or weak army, maybe for playing a shooty list or a fast / slow and so on...

at least thats my expericence :roll:

Lakissov · Post by **Lakissov** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:59 pm

=)
i didn't imply that everyone chose druchii because of them being more demanding than other armies. I simply think that there are quite a few of those who did.

Venkh · Post by **Venkh** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:27 pm

I think we all understood that, we just like arguing on the internet

Hopefully the book will keep us all very happy.

Darkspear · Post by **Darkspear** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:34 pm

SilverHeimdall wrote:
Azure wrote:But Kargan, then they would be nearly identical to Dragon Princes. What needs to happen is they should get S4 with movement 8 on cold ones with possibly 2 attacks on the cold ones. Lets call it, 30 points. Then they would hit slightly harder then Dragon Princes BUT would be stupid and imo fear rarely does anything!

-REx

If you want 2 Attacks at S4 on the cold ones, Base S4 on the Knights (S6 on the charge), Movement 8.

Yeah, lets call it 40 points.

Chaos Knights are what.. 45 pts? and have S5, 2+ armor, M7, 8, no fear no stupidity and I think thats the price without a mark of a chaos god.

Nope it is only 35 points. 45 points is the average point cost of a chaos chosen knight (2A, 1+ armor save)

Saithis · Post by **Saithis** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:25 pm

Venkh wrote:I think we all understood that, we just like arguing on the internet

Hopefully the book will keep us all very happy.

hehe i totally agree here...

i hope the new book makes fun - and most part of the units only can be better... (or lets say - can't get worse) so i think it will be ok

Lord tareq · Post by **Lord tareq** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:14 pm

Saithis wrote:
i hope the new book makes fun - and most part of the units only can be better... (or lets say - can't get worse) so i think it will be ok

Be careful what you say, its GW we are talking about. You never know what they suddenly get into their heads. For example they could have suddenly decided that they want to stop the whining about the infamous armycreep (new armies always seem better then the previous ones) and that they should make a statement by making one of the next armies in line weaker then the previously released armies.

Aleraen · Post by **Aleraen** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:23 pm

Lakissov wrote:well, I am sure that there are quite many people out here who, like me, would hate to see our book too powerful. after all, we chose it for being a difficult army to handle and for imposing high requirements on the general, not despite this...

*cough* I actually got Shanghai'd into DE. I'm a recovering Brett player.

Handmaiden · Post by **Handmaiden** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:27 pm

I think that strike first rule will be on assassins and maybe on witch elves, but no other unit or character will get it. A strike first magic weapon would be nice for a character..

I've been probably the most vocal advocate on ASF for temple/cult of Khaine Models (Witch Elves, Assassins, Witch Elf heroes, Morathi)

If they get it then I will be almost guaranteed to be perfectly happy with the new DE book, regardless of what else is in it really.

It's based on the simple logic that Elves who are more acrobatic without a shred of armour = faster than Elves with plate armour/chainmail on who are less dextrous. Wardancers have their dance, It'd be a shame if these troops were denied the first attack (and by default a place on many peoples army lists).

I like Fantasy to be believable when it comes to things like this. My opinion. So yeah, It will make me a happy bunny. and no I dont want to argue it as the book will be what it will be, and I will never drop Witch Elves against HE or anyone , roadkill or no.

I never used an assasin though or likely will ever bother ha, unless i learn to sculpt entire models outta green stuff. None of the current Assasin models do it for me.

I collected Dark ELves for the models soley. As an artist first and a gamer second, I am clearly not and likely never will be the Boudicca of warhammer, so I personally, would prefer powerful unit choices as opposed to weaker ones. I'd never collect a weak army just so I can have an uphill challenge, or to spend countless hours learning them, as it's hours I don't have and it's a skill level I'd be hard pressed to attain. I would like Dark ELves to be an army that isnt for the dumb, but also you dont need to be a tactical genius to get any use out of. A list that rewards the average to slightly above average general (and beyond obviously) is fine by me.

Noble korhedron · Post by **Noble korhedron** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:17 pm

Damnation wrote:Oh great, another Space Marines revamp.

Yes, W.T.F is with that?! It's ridiculous! I mean, 5th Ed. 40k already! We've not even had all the 4th Ed. codicies(or is it codexes?) out! FOR SHAME, GW, FOR SHAME!

Handmaiden · Post by **Handmaiden** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:37 pm

Going off topic a bit (well alot) but

Well The Space Marines are 40ks flagship army.. course they'll try to make them as good as they can right.

but on topic, I have two minds about hatred AWR i really do. DE's can ill afford to be pulled which way and where, although combined with the cauldron of blood, re-rolling hits and wounds is nice. Hatred is still crap on its own however against High Elves as you actually have to have a front rank left to hit with, much less to re roll any hits with.

Spite..I dont like and I hear its just a fan suggestion anyway, so that is pretty unlikely imo.

Armour piercing? lol see me problem about hatred and still needing a front rank to do squat in combat. Sure it helps tournament DE army's versatility, but if you know your facing high elves, the DE combat-infantry still wouldnt have much of a place against them, and likely never will (seeing that poison is tipped for Rxb shooting) barring more ASF or - to hit modifiers or GW come up with a rule thats completely out of left field - unlikely as that is.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:47 pm

From what I heard the Space Marine codex was slated for revision as soon as the Eldar codex came out and made it look silly and underpowered. Not that revising it will do anything other than make everything else look silly and underpowered.....

Post by **Loki** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:56 pm

From what I've heard, they are trying to make the Space Marine codex on par with the Chaos Space Marine codex.

Handmaiden · Post by **Handmaiden** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:07 pm

Does anyone else get the feeling that GW quite often make revisions...for the sake of revisions.

I can see their revisions going around in circles, if not now, then in time to come. :lol:

Darkmark · Post by **Darkmark** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:07 pm

Some things I hope for, or believe would be good for us..

1. DIY nobles such as asrai alters, new VC lords and rumoured daemons including witch elf character option making witch elves core etc
2. horse-drawn chariots thereby removing need for baby sitters
3. return of warhounds giving DE an expendable unit
4. removing shades and making it possible to upgrade warriors to scouts or similar. This could open door for a new special unit too
5. moblie CoB
6. ambush like BoC, reflecting DEs to lauch a cunning and surprise attack.

Raneth · Post by **Raneth** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:07 pm

From what I've heard, Dark Eldar are due for a revamp too.

Handmaiden · Post by **Handmaiden** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:11 pm

Dark ELves should totally get the Avatar of Khaine.

Raneth · Post by **Raneth** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:35 pm

What a coincidence!

I've just ordered the FW Avatar (with spear) to serve as the basis for my custom Cauldron of Blood!

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:59 pm

I agree with Handmaiden re: motivation behind collecting DE. I would be happy if they simply improved upon the miniature line (warrior's hands, goofy helmets, and those awful horses), I would be ecstatic if they gave us a reasonable chancce to stand toe to toe with HE in close combat but also provided the means to be sneaky and underhanded vs. everyone else. Something along the lines of being able to do off table flank marches into the enemy's rear (?) Imagine the look on a dwarf players face when, holed up in a corner of the table, like a little squat fortress bristling with cannon and guns, when I announce a charge of 4 chariots from off table into his rear.

Lord tareq · Post by **Lord tareq** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:02 am

Raneth wrote:What a coincidence! I've just ordered the FW Avatar (with spear) to serve as the basis for my custom Cauldron of Blood!

Nice, that is going to be one terrifying Cauldron of Blood :twisted:

Hopefully it will get some rules in the future worthy of such a model.

From what I've heard, Dark Eldar are due for a revamp too. Smile

Hehe about time too, their models are like what, 12 years old? And the codex is something like 9 years old. In that timeperiod I think I have seen spacemarines being redone at least 3 or 4 times.

Master of arneim · Post by **Master of arneim** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:20 am

About ASF... i'm a bit broken of hearing about this option... if Asur get it I don't understand why other army have to get it to counter... I mean, if the most particular new stuff of He is ASF, why everyone is going to take it? To counter? I do not agree that to contrast ASF unit is needed another ASF... It would seem the GW is considering it overpowered and so is going to allow it on multiple army (thinking about new corpse cart of Vc or the ideas of ASF for our Khainetes).

What is needed is another kind of characterist that allow our army to at least being equal (or a bit wicker as someone said, and I agree) on the sheet to our He buddies... Maybe the piercing on our shooting or a heavy magic phase with no armour save bolts or something else, but I'd hate to gain ASF for my troops. This is a "bad" thinking... to counter an army negate his major special rules... what the hell this mean?

Azure · Post by **Azure** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:28 am

MN: Honestly I see our khaineites getting a rule like Fury of Khaine or something of the such giving us ASF and a CoB that gives ASF much like the corpse cart. The problem with this is it doesnt fix the problem with infantry at all. HE infantry will continue to suck!

-Rex

Raneth · Post by **Raneth** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:40 am

I feel confident against ASF with our upcoming AW Hatred (Eternal!). Even if they didn't change our current troop types. Just 'normal' Hatred against others still allows for tremendously powerful charges, when done by the right units :twisted:

I'm getting a feeling I'll have to stock up on Witches

Lord Tareq wrote:
Raneth wrote:What a coincidence! I've just ordered the FW Avatar (with spear) to serve as the basis for my custom Cauldron of Blood!

Nice, that is going to be one terrifying Cauldron of Blood Hopefully it will get some rules in the future worthy of such a model.

To me, they already are. Kinda.

Venkh · Post by **Venkh** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:57 am

I'm getting a feeling I'll have to stock up on Witches

Witches cant go toe to toe with any of the asur units except perhaps the white lions. But then they are stubborn so your witches will be stuck for a while. A cauldron might help things along but thats another 10% of your points and a rare slot...

Spearmen are our best anti asur melee unit by far, especcially when you let them charge you.

Raneth · Post by **Raneth** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:37 am

Cauldron's worth it in my book. :twisted:

Never lose Frenzy, thank you. Eternal Hatred means 'getting stuck' isn't a negative per se. Spearmen might be better in attrition but they don't carry the threat the Witches do (fluff once = imminent poisony death). And when flank charging, Spearblocks are a lot less intimidating

Handmaiden · Post by **Handmaiden** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:28 am

Raneth lol High Elf players think that deploying Witch Elves is a free points gift and theyre correct pretty much - I would be very wary of using Witch Elves against High Elves if they only get hatred , as re rolling missed attacks doesnt mean much if you dont have a front line, and the only thing you can charge the High ELves with witch ELves are....MAYBE Archers, but boy will their stand and shoot reaction , plus their ASF attacks in the combat phase get you bad. Spearmen...no chance with witches, Phoenix Guard and other High ELf elites - Witches are just Roadkill, against them, and you wont get the charge on their cavalry, unless theyre already tied up in combat, problem is that Dark Elves dont have much in the way of anvil units to hold them for a flank charge. Chariots do ok tho.

Thats if Witches aint shot up.

Basically you charge to he front with witches, you may as well not bother and save time by taking them off the table straight away , I sure do hate to say it though as Witch Elves are my all time favourite unit .

So I personally would not drop them, but I wouldnt actually use them to do anything either I'd just have them hide (yeah thats pretty sad for Witch Elves, skulking and hiding while battle's going on) and them emerge to contest table quarters etc at the battles end or if opposing shooting is eliminated. I'd imagine theyre playing poker behind those trees. Hatred equates to their valour of ages, not ASF...

Corsairs are far better than the more expensive WItch ELves against High Elves imo , far more survivability for 6 less attacks or so. Only reason to use Witches is just for show/looks.

and the Cauldron is more worth it in Higher pt value games rly as more troops get the benefit.

Cold ones however and Noble + Hydra Banner + Hatred + Red Fury Zone+ lances = One very good first round of combat.