The super black guard unit

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights

Emal
Executioner
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:18 am
Location: Sweden

The super black guard unit

Post by Emal »

Some people say that im stupid for fielding a huge unit of black guard (15 black guard with dread banner) in allmost all my games.
But what those who say that dont know is just how well they perform for me.

Yesterday when i played agains Bretonnia in 1500pts they single handidly took out close to 1000pts.

Just how did that happen you might ask? well, remember the dread banner? now combine that with walking death to make em cause terror.
Then send em forward the oponent and hope he charges, suddenly brettonia isnt so scary anymore when they have stoped moving since they are unlikley to flee from that, and not to mention how 2 units fled from terror and failed to rally.

So black guard against bretonnia? well, i can highly recomend it since they can hold their ground without fleeing thanks to their high leadership and stuborness, alowing the rest of the army to get into a position to get a nice charge against them bretonnians.

But of course that wouldnt happen since the black guard proved to be to good at killing knights and managed to break the units they where suposed to pin down.

Sooo, an intresting black guard story.

Questions?
For the druchii
User avatar
Nagathi
The Exiled One
Posts: 8067
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:34 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Nagathi »

15 BGuards is considered a large unit? When you wrote "Super black guard unit" I was thinking some kind of Phalanx type of army. 50+ BGuards in one unit...

~ Nag
Lord_jimmy_
Cold One Knight
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Wherever you're not.

Post by Lord_jimmy_ »

My thoughts exactly Nagathi



My super Black Guard Unit would be 35 (7widex5deep)

Dread Banner

Noble with Banner of Nagarythe.

That would kick some behind....
People say I'm cocky, I say it's because they know I'm the best.

GrogsnotPowwabomba wrote:Ok, I agree with Lord_Jimmy here.
User avatar
Kefka
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1749
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:14 am
Location: That's for you to know and me to find out! Do I get a hint?

Post by Kefka »

although a good plan, 15 BG is average actually, not so super.
But good on ya for felling them Bretts!
Image

Fiat Obsidian - WS5 / S5 / T4 / D5 / I4
Equipment: Halberd, Zukhil Shield, Bastard Sword, Heavy Armour, Seadragon Cloak, Helmet of Slaanesh, Blackthorn Dagger
Mount: Locke (dark steed)
Gold: 488
Skills: Supernatural Awareness, Defensive Fighting, Intimidate, Drukh Kaganth (1)
Class: Warrior
User avatar
Bad beast
Malekith's Personal Guard
Posts: 857
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:46 am

Post by Bad beast »

Lord_Jimmy_ wrote:My thoughts exactly Nagathi



My super Black Guard Unit would be 35 (7widex5deep)

Dread Banner

Noble with Banner of Nagarythe.

That would kick some behind....


isn't the banner of Nag kinda a waste of points on a unit that causes fear and is already stubborn? not saying it's not good, but wouldn't a hydra banner be a better investment for the above unit?
User avatar
Limenix
Assassin
Posts: 583
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:42 am
Location: Athens Greece

Post by Limenix »

I tryed something like this once.
Sadly my Bret opponent charged my 18 strong BG with
his Grail Knights and left none standing.
My luck i guess....
The Druchii way of the Warrior:

When you must RUN ..... FIGHT!!!
When you must FIGHT .... WOUND!!!
When you must WOUND .... CRIPPLE!!!
When you must CRIPPLE .... KILL!!!
Lord_jimmy_
Cold One Knight
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Wherever you're not.

Post by Lord_jimmy_ »

@Bad Beast - I suppose the Hydra Banner would be good, cheaper too...but the Banner of Nagarythe is my stupid insurance policy for bad dice rolling.

Its not like I would ever field that unit :D
People say I'm cocky, I say it's because they know I'm the best.

GrogsnotPowwabomba wrote:Ok, I agree with Lord_Jimmy here.
Emal
Executioner
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:18 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Emal »

The super comes from what they did during the game :P
and fielding 15 black guard is rather large if you compare that most people only field zero of em :P
For the druchii
Krupp
Executioner
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:53 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by Krupp »

I glad you found a use for black guard. Bretonnians have no shooting, little in the way of magic, and no chariots. All the things that tend to kill off black guard. 15 Black guard with a Dread Banner is expensive in a massive way. Look at it this way, you can take 12 BG w/ no command or 2 RBTs whats gonna do more damage?
Lord_jimmy_
Cold One Knight
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: Wherever you're not.

Post by Lord_jimmy_ »

Me, with my mallet, hitting your models so you can't use them.

Other than that, I think the Bolt Throwers. (Sarcasm in case you couldnt tell)
People say I'm cocky, I say it's because they know I'm the best.

GrogsnotPowwabomba wrote:Ok, I agree with Lord_Jimmy here.
Krupp
Executioner
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:53 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by Krupp »

You can smash my black guard models all you want. Their the old 1 piece models and I never use em anyway. !lol!
Emal
Executioner
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:18 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Emal »

Well Krupp, sure i could take 2 bolt throwers, but where is the fun in that? ;)

There are ew things as rewarding as to see a Bretonnia players entire army grind to a halt cuz of 15 modells with heavy armour.
For the druchii
User avatar
Mutator
Black Guard
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 9:31 pm
Location: NZ

Post by Mutator »

Krupp wrote:Bretonnians have no shooting


?

They do in my neck of the woods.

Bretonnian armies with archer lines, skirmishing archers and trebuchet are quite common around here. And more dangerous than the all-knight armies, IMO.
Strength in Numbers: visit Underempire.net
User avatar
Nagathi
The Exiled One
Posts: 8067
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:34 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Nagathi »

Caddy on Steed - 152
BSB with Blood Armour, Seal of Ghrond, SDC - 146

5 Dark Riders with Muso - 97
5 Dark Riders with Muso - 97
5 Dark Riders with Muso - 97

Cauldron of Blood - 205
84 Black Guard, Full Command, Dread banner - 1454

TOTAL: 2248 Points

Awesome army or not? :D
BSB with BGs, making them stubborn on a Ld9 re-roll, Sorc rides with DR out of harm's way. Those 85 fear-causing models will kick arse ;)

Sorry for some off topic.

~ Nag
User avatar
Azure
Rumour Lord of Doom
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 5:11 pm
Location: Har Ganeth (Santa Cruz, CA
Contact:

Post by Azure »

If you REALLY want the super black Guard Unit I have seen this EXTREMELY OFTEN

Basically 3 units of Dark Riders, BSB with Banner of Nargeythe. Rest of the points into as many black guard as possible and I suppose you could throw a CoB in but its unnecesary. Then you deploy the unit backwards and slowing walk your way towards the enemy. The unit is unbreakable and hits rather hard and is very difficult to get any VP out of. Just make sure the noble is in the front (well back since your walking backwards) rank and dont let him die!

-REx... oh and the dread banner
Moderator - Druchii Tactics
Belial. wrote:OT [forum] is quite quiet most of the time, except when Azure makes a new topic.

Free Porn!
Become my padawan! This game is fun! http://azuredruchii.mybrute.com
User avatar
Limenix
Assassin
Posts: 583
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:42 am
Location: Athens Greece

Post by Limenix »

Azure wrote:If you REALLY want the super black Guard Unit I have seen this EXTREMELY OFTEN

Basically 3 units of Dark Riders, BSB with Banner of Nargeythe. Rest of the points into as many black guard as possible and I suppose you could throw a CoB in but its unnecesary. Then you deploy the unit backwards and slowing walk your way towards the enemy. The unit is unbreakable and hits rather hard and is very difficult to get any VP out of. Just make sure the noble is in the front (well back since your walking backwards) rank and dont let him die!

-REx... oh and the dread banner



HAHAHA you made me laugh.
Now this is really something i would love to see.
The Druchii way of the Warrior:

When you must RUN ..... FIGHT!!!
When you must FIGHT .... WOUND!!!
When you must WOUND .... CRIPPLE!!!
When you must CRIPPLE .... KILL!!!
Longblade
Slave on the Altar
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:02 am

Post by Longblade »

Azure wrote:Then you deploy the unit backwards and slowing walk your way towards the enemy.


why backwards...? I don't get the logic here
User avatar
Azure
Rumour Lord of Doom
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 5:11 pm
Location: Har Ganeth (Santa Cruz, CA
Contact:

Post by Azure »

Because then the BSB that makes the unit unbreakable cannot be attacked. Ohterwise the plan wont work as the BSB will get destroyed if hes in the front!

-Rex
Moderator - Druchii Tactics
Belial. wrote:OT [forum] is quite quiet most of the time, except when Azure makes a new topic.

Free Porn!
Become my padawan! This game is fun! http://azuredruchii.mybrute.com
User avatar
Phierlihy
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 2089
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:19 am

Post by Phierlihy »

If I were serious about the super Black Guard unit I would...

- give them the Dread Banner
- Put my BSB on a steed with the Banner of Nag on the corner of the unit
- put an assassin in the unit to protect my 150 point banner
- line up 5 units of 10 naked warriors 1 wide standing right next to the BSB for an extra +5 combat res (read the exact wording of the banner if you're unsure why I would do this)
- have at least 1 scroll caddy
- have 1 unit of 5 harpies because they're so darn useful
User avatar
Azure
Rumour Lord of Doom
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 5:11 pm
Location: Har Ganeth (Santa Cruz, CA
Contact:

Post by Azure »

Phier, I gotta say man that you are pushing the reading farther than anyone I have ever seen... and I think your wrong. The +1 CR affects the units around it AND the unit carrying it is unbreakable. Not the unit carrying it and the units around it get +1...

-Rex
Moderator - Druchii Tactics
Belial. wrote:OT [forum] is quite quiet most of the time, except when Azure makes a new topic.

Free Porn!
Become my padawan! This game is fun! http://azuredruchii.mybrute.com
User avatar
Lakissov
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1180
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:31 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Contact:

Post by Lakissov »

well, the biggest problem with banner of nagaruthe, beside its price, is that it can't join units at the moment. that is because unbreakable characters can't join non-unbreakable units. definitely, this is an oversight (regarding the banner), and will be fixed in the new book (probably adding a line that specifically allows the bsb with this banner to join units).
Die go
Executioner
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:05 am
Location: Chopping my enemies to bits

Post by Die go »

I used a similar tactic against Empire and Bretts once: 18BG+ Banner of Murder+noble.

Bretts never expect infantry to be able to charge them, and once you are there, BG is not going to move. Of course they´re only T3, but Bretts are mostly S3 too. BG lasted enough for me to flank charge against the two cavalry units and so I won the game easily.
"Brother, while you burn, you belong to life."
Chimera
Trainee Warrior
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:13 pm

Post by Chimera »

Lakissov wrote:well, the biggest problem with banner of nagaruthe, beside its price, is that it can't join units at the moment. that is because unbreakable characters can't join non-unbreakable units...


Nah, we're okay, the wording in my book says 'unit carrying' - if the BSB joins a unit, the unit gets it. If anyone tries to argue otherwise they're being silly. Even our underpowered book wouldn't have a 150 point banner to make a T3 2W noble with a 5+ save unbreakable...

Nagathi wrote:(stuff)
84 Black Guard, Full Command, Dread banner - 1454
(other stuff)
~ Nag


I really want to try that... :shock:
User avatar
Lakissov
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1180
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:31 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Contact:

Post by Lakissov »

Hm I guess you are right, Chimera. I overlooke that. Well, then the idea seems worthwhile. Just, why would one do the Banner of nagarythe trick with black guard then? Warriors are much better at this (because they are cheaper).
Chimera
Trainee Warrior
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:13 pm

Post by Chimera »

Well, I can tell you what works for me, I run a large (25-30) unit of Spearmen with BSB and the Banner of Nagarythe with 20 Black Guard next to them.

That way my squishy spearmen are unbreakable, and the Stubborn Black Guard get a re-roll for when I roll the 10.

Big points sink though. Although Brettonians hate it.
Post Reply