Character on DP

[Jayferd22]

Alot of discussion looming arond lately about putting HB/Nob on a Dark Pegasus. I just can't seem to grasp how this is more cost effective than mounting on DS. 2 inch further move for about 40 more points. That and the DP mounted Character can't join units and can get picked off by shooting very easily. Anyone can think of some reasonable advantage for the DP mount?

[Vorchild]

For a highborn, no, because its too high a risk - same for a high sorc. If you're going to make that kind of investment you might as well go for a manticore which is much more multi-dimensional.

For a hero level character, on the other hand, it can be much more useful. As a platform for missiles (whether lifetaker or doomstick) you tend to want the greater movement potential of the pegasus over the dark steed. Keep in mind too that march blocking can really restrict the movement on a dark steed, while it does not affect the flight move of the pegasus. So, if you're going to be close to enemy units and don't want to get caught, the pegasus is better.

Also look at the cost increase. Its only about 40 pts more for the peg over the steed. That's not very much, though granted you don't have quite the same protection. For a hero level character its not really necessary though. To be honest, in all the games I've used a noble on pegasus neither he nor the pegasus have been killed very often - its actually been pretty rare. That being said, its rare for me to lose any characters except for a lord on dragon. Obviously its in relation to the amount of a threat it is perceived to be from your opponent and how much fire it draws and how in the open you commit the hero to be. Used wisely, it distracts the enemy and gives you a movement edge that may be quite valuable. Its also valuable in many cases to move the full 20" for a failed charge.

[Katash]

2 inch further move for about 40 more points.

You do realise that it can fly.

[Irtehdar]

I think that the advantage of the DP over the DS is not only the +2 move. Its also very much that the DS cant travel its full max range over terrain or close past enemy units. The DP can fly over an enemy regiment. The DS looses way more than 2 inches if it has to go around the same enemy unit. aslong as its within 8 inches of an enemy unit its reduced to a movement of 9 inches. in takes it 2 movement phases just to get past the enemy and in 1 enemy round its often exposed to enemy attacks. The DP dont have this problem as it just bounces over the enemy.

[Jayferd22]

Yes I realize that it can fly, ignore opponent units within 8 inches, and basically ignores terrain. However, I don't see what role this would allow the character to serve. Yes this could allow me to move faster. However, I'm a easier target to missile fire if I do this. What are the advantages of having this faster mount if I can't stay out of sight. Note: I've never used a Flying Mount so I'm just curious. I know getting behind the enemy is nice, just looking for a couple scenarious where I can take full advantage of the Pegaus' movement.

[Minsc]

A DS has 1 S3 attack
A DP has 2 S5 attacks when it charges, you have to add that to the pointcost.

[Vorchild]

Its really is about the penetration of the enemy lines and getting around a flank that you take the guy. You'd be surprised exactly how mobile a pegasus is compared to a dark steed. The extra attacks are nice too. Think about it purely in terms of table control. The extra range can be critical at time as can be the ability to hop terrain features and units, etc. It allows you to push back small threats like fast cav that little bit more, either bottling them up and the rest of the army more or exposing them to being wiped out. A lot of people also deploy a unit of infantry below a hill upon which they've set a war machine, archers, etc. With the peg you can hop the enemy unit and hit the unit on the hill.

Really, I guess the only way you're going to see the value is to use one. Its not for every army, but it can work well for many. Also realise that it has surprising versatility in that if you need to use only your ground movement (into forests, for example) you still have that option at a pretty high movement rate.

But, in the end its all about paying for extra control. I've never worried too much about the death aspect since most often I've either engaged the offending missile unit or else it has better targets (like a unit of DR or another monster, etc).

[Cadeyrn]

One other thing to note.

A DP can charge OVER models. For instance, a cannon on a hill with 20 warriors at the foot of the hill. A hero on a DP can charge over the warriors, and attack the cannon (provided there is room for his base to fit), where as a Steed rider would need to either go around, or try to charge through the warriors.

Because of this, your opponent will find the DP a much larger threat, and have to react accordingly.

Yes, he's easier to shoot, but remember, the DP is NOT a large target, so it can hide behind other troops, and with randomization, adds 3 wounds to the hero. Used correctly, a DP can be worth it's points in gold, not that a Steed is a poor choice of mount either mind you.

[Master of arneim]

For a highborn, no, because its too high a risk - same for a high sorc. If you're going to make that kind of investment you might as well go for a manticore which is much more multi-dimensional.

For a hero level character, on the other hand, it can be much more useful. As a platform for missiles (whether lifetaker or doomstick) you tend to want the greater movement potential of the pegasus over the dark steed. Keep in mind too that march blocking can really restrict the movement on a dark steed, while it does not affect the flight move of the pegasus. So, if you're going to be close to enemy units and don't want to get caught, the pegasus is better.

Also look at the cost increase. Its only about 40 pts more for the peg over the steed. That's not very much, though granted you don't have quite the same protection. For a hero level character its not really necessary though. To be honest, in all the games I've used a noble on pegasus neither he nor the pegasus have been killed very often - its actually been pretty rare. That being said, its rare for me to lose any characters except for a lord on dragon. Obviously its in relation to the amount of a threat it is perceived to be from your opponent and how much fire it draws and how in the open you commit the hero to be. Used wisely, it distracts the enemy and gives you a movement edge that may be quite valuable. Its also valuable in many cases to move the full 20" for a failed charge.

Totally right.

What let me a bit uncertain is taking a 2lvl mage on the peggy. In this case you want a pegasus because:
1 You need a better manouverablity and not to be stuck on the ground by march blocking
2 You need to see enemy units and not to be seen (thinking about flying on flanks of ranked units and so on)
3 You need to keep nearer to the enemy to improve your damage.
But with a 2^lvl mage you don't know what kind of spells you'll get by random and so all the above comes down. Arguing on Dark magic, if you get bolts you can easily throw them from inside a unit or at least joining drs with your dark steed. In the end if you don't catch Dominion and Soulstealer you really do not need the pegasus.

Note that the superiority of a Pegasus over a Ds is really clear to me. It's just a matter of costs vs an uncertain choice of spells.

[Jayferd22]

Thanks guys, that helps alot. Also did not know a Dark Pegaus could ride next to a unit of Dark Riders and be protected from missile fire. They Pegasus model looks huge in comparison.

[Raneth]

HS should take Manti over Peggy? Here's your basket, get yourself some eggs

I do agree the Peggy is a risky mount for such an expensive character, and the Manti might be able to take a few more hits - it ain't a lot I'll tell you, and the Large Target rule isn't helping either. I'm no expert on mage usage but I've always found it strange never to see... Lv4 HS on DS.

[Vorchild]

HS should take Manti over Peggy? Here's your basket, get yourself some eggs

I actually rather enjoy this configuration. It really surprises a lot of people. Haven't lost the HS yet though I have lost the manticore once in the three times I've tried it out.

Still, your best bet with a HS is on a steed in a unit of something or other...

[Raneth]

I've played one once upon a time so I know it can be a good weapon. But taking the Manti instead of the Peg requires the HS to take on the roles of a US5 Terror flyer (hardly ideal for the nekked lass) because the extra investment can't be made up for otherwise.

But ree---aaally with you on the DS... as I said, it's been a long while since I've come across one.

[Master of arneim]

A De Italian Player took a high sorc on the last gt with some success... I surely would not be able to use it but guessing maybe the terror and being big target (so seeing over other units) with a bit of cc power may help on keeping the sorc alive

[Khalius]

What let me a bit uncertain is taking a 2lvl mage on the peggy.

Pretty sure we can't do that. Been playing a few 1200-1500 point games, so I know what our heroes and Lvl1-2 Sorcs can take.

[Azure]

I have messed around with the Lvl 3 with 4 scrolls riding a manticore. With the amount of magic coming out recently you need more than just the single scroll caddy and this combined with a SoG gets you 5DD and 4 scrolls. Blow your scrolls easy, make your general a noble so they dont get a extra 100VP and have her go charge something when the game starts getting late. A HB on manti won't survive much more than a HS will considering the manti is gonna be the first to die.

-Rex

[Irtehdar]

The way Im using the DP Noble is pretty straight forward and almost always does exactly what I bought him for with very good precission.
I almost use him exclusively for mage/warmachine hunting and at this job hes simply one of the best things at our disposal. A harpy group will be worn down be the time they hit the second warmachine. This guy wont. He usually charges the first warmachine by turn 2 and in every turn after that he elliminates another machine. once hes done doing machines I suicide charges him into a unit with a mage in it.
He also have the speed to get away if he survives the charge.
If theres no obvious targets for him I usually use him as support for other units.

The only model that has never managed to let me down was the DP Noble. but Ive seen him kill off 5 times his own pts value in one game. Ive seen him die because a catapult shot him dirrectly but thats not his fault. That was my enemy that decided he would try to defend his catapult.

[Raneth]

I have messed around with the Lvl 3 with 4 scrolls riding a manticore. With the amount of magic coming out recently you need more than just the single scroll caddy and this combined with a SoG gets you 5DD and 4 scrolls. Blow your scrolls easy, make your general a noble so they dont get a extra 100VP and have her go charge something when the game starts getting late. A HB on manti won't survive much more than a HS will considering the manti is gonna be the first to die.

-Rex

Damn relevant, though taking 4 Scrolls on her limits her ranged capabilities somewhat (no Lifetaker/WoK). Furthermore, when you've effectively invested in 3 levels of Magic I find it hard not to build on that. I like the idea enough to try it.

[Bounce]

I tried a HS on Dark Pegasus but she simply became an arrow magnet and was shot to pieces by HE and Skaven, However against armies with no shooting like Vampires or armies with only 1-2 shooting units like Ogres, Empire she ruled the battle field flying over units and obliterating them with Black Horror and Steal Soul.
It really depends on what you are up against on how much you need to hide.

At the last tournament I used her on a Dark Steed in a unit of Dark Riders and she was able to perform the same capacity but with a bit more survivability against shooty armies.

I have never tried the manticore combo, as 1 I don't have a manticore around and 2, It seems a bit odd to put a non combat model on top of a combat model.?