Shadow magic, and why you should take it

[Jamesfazzolari]

Pit of Shades is a rather amazing counter to treemen ancients I must say.

In general the lore is solid - I used it in its lesser 6th ed form for three years at competitive level and always found uses for it. To really get the most from the lore however, you really do need a lone fighty character on foot - just so you can always Steed him around if they enemy dispels everything else.

[Phierlihy]

A lone character on foot? Hahahahahahahah!! Oh that was funny!!

[Dalamar]

Is pretty good at destroying warmachines and pesky units of light cavalry or scouts.

[Rhakinlanthari]

A lone character on foot? Hahahahahahahah!! Oh that was funny!!

Who says the character has to be on his own before jumping 20"? Have your noble leading a block of infantry then use steed of shadows to make a 20" flying charge out of the unit and into that war machine crew up on the hill.

[Khel]

Steed of Shadows is a great spell for flying anything valuable like a sorceress who has lost her mount out of danger. I guess you could also use a suicidal Noble with the WoS and charge him straight into a wizard unit. It could work, but the Noble is too expensive to be sacrificed for a kamikaze hunter in my opinion.

[Raneth]

Trouble is: if your opponent has the least bit of sense he'll eat the Pit and save his DD or a Scroll for that Hail Mary Steed.

[Linda lobsta defenda]

phierlihy: If you are going to make a comment then back up your statement, as it is your post is just pure spam. Consider yourself warned ok?

[Phierlihy]

Ok, how about "lone Dark Elf characters on foot looking for a fight = dead"? I trust that is pointed enough.

[Dalamar]

But it's a wrong point, lone dark elf characters on foot are quite capable of dealing with nuisance of warmachines, scouts and light cavalry when backed by Steed of Shadows spell.

[Phierlihy]

Forgive my first post for not being obvious enough. I definitely wouldn't throw a lone hero into a unit. A goblin warmachine? Maybe. But nothing else. A unit of anything starts with a +1 just for out-numbering so I have to do at least two wounds to win? My dice are cursed and my noble would probably wiff his attacks and get run down or something equally pathetic. I wouldn't do it without support - to risky!

[Black corsair]

I have both a Dark Elf and a High Elf army...(I know, I know)....and I recently used a lvl 4 Archmage with Lore of Shadows. I left him on foot and gave him Folariath's Robes, Loremaster's Cloak and Silver Wand. I used the Steed of Shadows/Crown of Taidron combo and wreaked much havoc on my Empire foe.

For my Dark Elves, I usually take Dark Magic, but I like to mix up Shadow/Death every now and then.

[Whammewhamme]

Personally, I think Lore of Shadows is incredibly good. At least on a level four caster with 5 spells.

Just got wrecked by a flying Saurus Scar-Veteran earlier today.


Still, DE context (DE vs Lizardmen game today was... brutal. At the end of it, I lost by 50 points... because pretty much our ENTIRE ARMIES were dead... actually, I wounded the Stegadon three times... I guess I actually /won/ by 50...).

Right. I don't like low-grade damage spells (ones that aren't good at killing elite troops). I /really/ don't like 'Fireballs'. They don't force dispel dice, because they're just shooting, so they don't HELP. Spells need to eat dispel dice and dispel scrolls.

Lore of Shadows is good at forcing dispel dice/scrolls.

Steed of Shadows? Use with Deathmask to force terror tests. Can't ignore that. (And yes, all my fighty heroes are mounted... but the High Sorceress /isn't/) (and even when she isn't 'Masked, she can fly around and lend Ld/set up her other spells).

Creeping Doom? Kills elite troops without letting them make saves.

Crown of Taidron? Not awesome, but good with Steed of Shadows.

Fear-for-a-unit? A terror-causing Cold One Chariot + 5 Dark Riders got me some 1200 VPs in one fell swoop... that will never happen again, but terror is good, and saving power dice to dispel this will hurt them.

Unseen Lurker is... what magic ought to be. Completely non-interchangeable with anything else. Nothing else does what this does.

Pit of Shades... deadly dangerous.


Shadows has the best /anti-elite/ damage spells (taken as a group), The Best Spell In The Game, a spell that makes Cold Ones cause Terror, and Steed of Shadows to make sure you're in the right place to cast 'em.

Okay, SoS isn't that great... but it's solid with #3, and if you have the Tome, who needs them?


Besides. What other choices do we have?

Death is full of awkward spells to use, and Dark Magic is Death-lite.

[Vallorn deathblade]

anyone used an army with all the charecters as assassins and sorceresses?
steed the assasins in and around your opponents troops once your near and he gets realy scared and focuses on them.
won me a lot of games that tactic has.e.g

high elves charge unit of spearelves
assasin pops out and slaughters all elves in front of him.
sorceress steeds assasin out of combat in DE magic phase
another sorceress steeds assasin into high elf warmachine
assasin cuts down crew.
rinse and repeat.

this tactic rocks.

[Aspiring executioner]

Forget normal assassins use it with Shadowblade... Just thinking about it makes my mouth water.

[No one]

you're still watering when you consider that one DS will leave your expensive shadowblade in front of your opponents archers and mages?

[One-s]

I read this discussion and I'm confused.
I've got a dutch version of the BRB, according to the dutch version of the steed of shadow spell, you can cast it on a friendly model within 12".
It doesn't say anywhere that it needs to be a character.
It does say that the model can't be mounted and must have unit strength 1, but according to the dutch BRB, you can cast a steed of shadows on a regular rank and file model.
It says friendly model, not friendly character.
What is the wording of the English version of the BRB for the steed of shadow spell?

[Viper]

Of course I Either avoid magic altogether or go magic heavy and with heavy Magic Its usually a L4 Sorc on Cold One with Dark magic and a L2 Sorc on foot with Death.

You do know that when your mount suffers from stupidity that the rider cannot cast spells right? Possibly worth the risk with a level 4 with an LD 0f 9 but then again, that would cripple your magic phase if the dice roll badly. Usually my CoKs fail stupidity 1-2 times per game, I am not sure I would want to risk 4 levels of magic just to have a 5+ AS that most attacks and shooting will ignore anyways. not to mention, having your mount blunder straight ahead into danger.


Pretty much the same can be said for a Level 2 on cold one, except that the loss of magic is lower but the chance of going stupid is significantly higher.

[Dalamar]

I read this discussion and I'm confused.
I've got a dutch version of the BRB, according to the dutch version of the steed of shadow spell, you can cast it on a friendly model within 12".
It doesn't say anywhere that it needs to be a character.
It does say that the model can't be mounted and must have unit strength 1, but according to the dutch BRB, you can cast a steed of shadows on a regular rank and file model.
It says friendly model, not friendly character.
What is the wording of the English version of the BRB for the steed of shadow spell?

English BRB says "friendly character within 12" "
that's why I so dislike translations... they end up crap! and I'm a linguist...

besides, models cannot leave units they are part of, so the spell would be wasted anyway if cast on regular r'n'f model

[Sulla]

But it's a wrong point, lone dark elf characters on foot are quite capable of dealing with nuisance of warmachines, scouts and light cavalry when backed by Steed of Shadows spell.

The thought of ever using this strategy always leaves me thinking, "And then what"?

I'm in total agreement with you that a noble or assassin could break the nuisance units you mention but then what? They are stranded in the open... easy points for just about anything surely? I suppse a full compliment of armour might see off a single d6 magic missile but not much more.

[Raneth]

Dreams of rampaging Assassins teleporting across the board, wreaking havoc ninja-style.

Gogo Clan Eshin.

[Dalamar]

Then you send them forward with next steed of shadows.
Or make sure the first one puts them in good overrun path, like into the next warmachine.

[Bounce]

Until of course you miscast or your opponent dispels it and your 180 point assasin is stranded deep in enemy territory.
If you want to fly take a pegasus!

[Izirath]

@Sulla

Well in any normal case your Assasin would be in the open right?

@Bounce
I'd actually say an Assasin is a more efficent killer.

[Sulla]

Then you send them forward with next steed of shadows.
Or make sure the first one puts them in good overrun path, like into the next warmachine.

So your strategy predicates taking multiple foot characters?

Sounds much more valid for high points games rather than 2000. Every character needs to fulfil a role in my army at those sort of points. Not a speculator who will only get to do his thing if I have magic superiority and my opponent takes weak units like above.

Would probably be a good nasty tactic vs TK though I suppose to kill those pesky catapults or liches if they are silly enough to deploy the liche away from a unit champ...

[Dalamar]

My army rarely sees characters on foot unless they are scroll caddies, or just lost their mounts.
I'm just giving possible applications of Steed of Shadows.