What are you planing to include?

[Kamahl]

just the CoK, 2 CoC and the "highborn" for now methinks i have plenty of infantry as it is might consider getting me some more black guard models to present a proper unit (like 15 or so) oh and I still need to get me one of them cute flying lions (my main opponents play dryads or undead so fear immune hammers are my cup of tea at the moment)

[Survivor]

CoK, CoC, Corsairs and Witch Elves. Hoping for some decent new Witch Elf rules. I`m tired of pussy footing around. I want to get stuck in and slaughter our enemies.

[Powerfulfawn]

Executioners, assassins, new plastic CoK and corsairs, hmmm.. then lord on black dragon using HE plastic dragon kit.. maybe new hydra depending how it looks.. well thats pretty much all new additions i can think of...

[Alderhan]

At the moment; New Corsairs, new Cold One Knights, Heroes and maybe a dragon converted from the High Elf kit.

[Thanee]

Everything. Of course.

Bye
Thanee

[Layne]

I'll have a Dragon, a chariot, some Warriors of both flavours, COK, Corsairs, Dark Riders, and a lager and a packet of crisps. Don't know about other monsters yet, and Witch Elves I'm unsure of. I was going to have Devotees and Annointed, (and Core Shades!). My dreams has been shattered and scattered. Maybe I'll paint my Witch Elves, maybe I'll just use the models I have for Devotees. I'll probably get a Hydra, but it won't be the first thing I buy*. Manticore apparently not changing, not sold on the current model, we'll see. But yes, I'll be rushing out to get Corsairs and CoK, and more Warriors.

*The first thing I buy will be a 5 litre bottle of Glee.

Layne.

[Khalius]

I haven't had any corsairs before, I think I'll get about 20+fc, to be used in 2 units of 10 or 1x20, depending on how their rules turn out. With SDC + Sh they could turn into a very nice tarpit, but that is unconfirmed (and I think quite unlikely). Otherwise they will be RxB pistol "detachments", screening and flanking other blocks, then providing that flank charge.

Who am I kidding, we are all getting the spearhead as well, aren't we... *sheepish grin*

[Stormbringer ruler]

Obviously, corsairs. GW was very smart including new weapons options for them, practically forcing us to buy the new models if we want keep using them (new models whose at least are very cool).

Cold one knights...it depends how they will look. I have a unit of 6 Gamezone CoK and i am quite happy with them. Maybe a second unit will be considerated, if the new Knights (not the cold ones) really worth it.

[Zeth]

I love my current DE list, however many of the rumors seem to be disappointing.
The new BG appear to be weak, new execs are alright unless they get +1AotC from the cauldron then they will be one of the best active CR units in the game.

If the cauldron just gives +1AotC it will be very disappointing, my DR will lose a lot of their punch and my Witches will gain less from it then they do now.
Pllus it seems it will deploy in a unit of witches, trying to promote me fielding large units of a purely active CR unit, which I find to be poor design.

None of our elite infantry will fill different roles, all basically the same with with slight specialty differences, with witches still reigning supreme if they can get manbane.

Even with Regen the hydra is going to be one of the worest monsters in the game.

The manticore moving to rare is also a pain, as I never use all my charater slots and might of used both my rares in the new book.

The new CoK models are great, and if the cold ones get 2A's and are effected by the hatred then they will be a strong unit, unless of course they become overpriced, better stat about the same cost as they are now.

Seems they didn't bother to fix our magic, and its unlikely it will get cheaper, making our mages still the price of vampires with a weaker lore and no CC potential. Plus it seems they removed the best spell in our lore, dominion.

At least we are getting plastic corsairs, and they are getting some fun new things. This is just about the only thing in the book I'm looking forward to.

But to answer your questions more directly, I was not planning to include anything different, and was hoping GW would surprise me and give me reason to field something new, but alas it seems that is not to be.

[Monkeylord]

For the record, I'm fairly certain Zeth is smoking crack.

Personally, I can't wait to field some black guard for the first time since 5th edition. Stubborn + Eternal Hatred + SM-like Stats = Lots of dead baddies. Execs might be worth fielding, too... which makes me very happy, because I like their models the most out of the entire Dark Elf range.

I'm also excited about fielding the new Corsairs... I'm so very glad that they will be a multipurpose, flexible unit again.

And Witch Elves that ASF! I can't get over that... Yay for the Meatgrinders of Khaine!!!!

And the magic sounds like it will be a tremendous boost for my particular playstyle... I typically field lower level casters, so unlimited casting dice means that I will be firing off Black Horror (with increased range) far more often, and more reliably. Unfortunately, for those of us that field higher level casters, well, that particular rule doesn't help us much.

Cheaper Dark Riders and harder hitting CoKs will be my bread and butter!

I just REALLY wish we were getting a new DR plastic kit.

[Zeth]

Ran stats for the rumored Execs and BG.
This is the rumor I heard and thus the numbers I ran.
Execs S3 w/ new Draich +1S AP, auto wound.
BG S3 2 A w/ new Draich -maybe just halberd been told is is AP though- +1S AP.

These stats Include hatred, have not run stats for Execs after first round once they lose hatred, as simply I didn't care.

Will update these stats if new rumors come to light, will add witches when I know more about the poisons the hag can get. Will also run stats with cauldron once I have confirmed rumors on its ability, some say reroll wounds, so say +1AotC, some say both.

Oh yeah, and this chart is per Model. So simply multiply your frontage by the number on the chart. For Execs multiply by 1 Higher if you have a champ, for BG multiply by .5 higher if you have a champ.


Here ya go.

[Zeth]

For the record, I'm fairly certain Zeth is smoking crack.

My problem with the BG is their inability to use stubborn effectively.
To expensive to take a big block, and to fragile for to many extra points compared to Execs and probably witches to be worth taking small unit.

[Drainial]

Here ya go.

I belive I probobly speak for many of the less mathmatical on the forum when I say what the hell does that mean? Explain it in laymans tearms please.

[Hateshighelves]

Isn't this rather speculative anyway? Unless you've actually seen the official new rules somehow.

I'm fairly good at math and that chart means nothing to me.

Sorry.

[The skaerkrow]

My current Dark Elf army will remain largely unchanged at first (Spear Warriors, Chariots, Dark Riders, 2 RBTs, Manti and Hydra), but if I like any of the revised elite troop choices I may work them in.

My new Dark Elf army will be based around the new plastic sets mostly, and I plan on buying a couple of boxes of Corsairs just to kitbash their bits into my Warrior, Dark Rider and Shade conversions.

[Monkeylord]

For the record, I'm fairly certain Zeth is smoking crack.

My problem with the BG is their inability to use stubborn effectively.
To expensive to take a big block, and to fragile for to many extra points compared to Execs and probably witches to be worth taking small unit.

Yeah, but MOST units in the game that are stubborn are expensive elites. There are scant few indeed that are cheap block troops. And thus far in my experience, I've yet to encounter a stubborn troop type that wasn't a thorn in my side.

Black Guard with Halberds, heavy armor, eternal hatred, and stubborn will be a solid unit that can take a charge, and then next round, reem their opponent. In my opinion, the best possible use would be to get them into combat as soon as possible (to avoid missile fire and magical attacks), and then let them do what they do best.

I belive I probobly speak for many of the less mathmatical on the forum when I say what the hell does that mean? Explain it in laymans tearms please.

Heh, ok, I'll try to break it down for you: What Zeth is pointing out is the difference in statistical utility between the Executioners and the Black Guard. If you look at the numbers, we see that against low toughness opponents, the Black Guard are more likely to do serious damage than the Executioners... one of the primary factors being their greater number of attacks.

However, that advantage begins to recede as the toughness of the opponent grows higher. By looking at these numbers, once you get to T5 opponents, the advantage reverses in favor of the executioners. Which makes sense if you think about it... Black Guard will always have to worry about how tough their opponent is, no matter how many successful to-hit rolls they make. But not the Executioner... He doesn't care whether your toughness is 2 or 10, he will wound you with ANY successful to-hit roll.

So while I may disagree with Zeth on Black Guard not being worth the points cost, I think his numbers do demonstrate a very good point, and I'm glad he brought it to our attention.

In battles where we're facing generally low toughness opponents, like elves or humans, Black Guard are a stronger unit to take than Executioners... largely because they will do more damage (AND they are going to be very difficult to break in H2H combat).

However, if you're going up against Chaos, Ogres, or any army likely to be monster heavy, Executioners would be a more sound decision, because their overall utility (while lower than the maximum utility achieved by Black Guard), doesn't ever change. They will be generally as effective against a carnasaur as they would be against a unit of lowly goblin spearmen. (well, when attacking, anyway. )

So the moral of the story is: If fielding a tournament worthy, all comers army, I would probably rather field executioners than black guard. But in casual games where I have more latitude in tailoring my army for my opponent, the Black Guard is more effective against low toughness opponents.

[Voodoomaster]

i know what i am having for my first army, a defensive balanced army centred around black guard and Converted Chariots.

as for my 2nd army, i'm Thinking Khainite with 2 Cauldrons and alot of Witches, Executioners and Disciples of Khaine (Corsairs)

[Zeth]

Yeah, but MOST units in the game that are stubborn are expensive elites. There are scant few indeed that are cheap block troops. And thus far in my experience, I've yet to encounter a stubborn troop type that wasn't a thorn in my side.

Hammers and WL's are both amazing.
Hammers have a 3+ armor save, and are cheaper then BG and an option to get immune to fear, but adding a character, and dwarf lords really have no better place to go.
WL's have ASF and a 3+ save vs shooting, for only a point more.
Both these units have stats and rules to support their Stubborn rule, and make it significantly more useful then BG's stubborn. BG have no rule to support their stubborn ability, and they are likely to paint a target on their heard for a bit of shooting when deployed, and for being just as easy to kill as Execs who are 3 points cheaper, I just don't find it worthwhile.

Again, I'll point out this is purely based off of rumors, once the book comes out we will have more information I can further assess the usefulness the BG's stubborn.

Black Guard with Halberds, heavy armor, eternal hatred, and stubborn will be a solid unit that can take a charge, and then next round, reem their opponent. In my opinion, the best possible use would be to get them into combat as soon as possible (to avoid missile fire and magical attacks), and then let them do what they do best.

Ideally yes get them into combat quick. But due to stubborn they are going to attract a missile fire and they don't need to take much to make Stubborn ineffective. Not to mention that it is worthless against 1/3 of the warhammer armies and then a good percentage of units in side of the rest.

So the moral of the story is: If fielding a tournament worthy, all comers army, I would probably rather field executioners than black guard. But in casual games where I have more latitude in tailoring my army for my opponent, the Black Guard is more effective against low toughness opponents.

Thats all i'm saying.
I suppose I did not make my context very clear.
In a tournament or league situation, where fear is abundant, and can not plan on your opponent, I find BG and their stubborn to be not viable compared to Execs and Witches.

Very specifically I am not talking about tailored list, where you will know if your opponent causes fear, know their toughness, and if stubborn will be useful.

If I knew I was going to play against Bretts, I would certainly take BG over Execs as they have little or no fear, minimal shooting, and lots of T3 Knights. This is where BG shine. But tailored lists are the least balanced aspect of warhammer, and thus I shy away from talking about that format.

[Zeth]

Isn't this rather speculative anyway? Unless you've actually seen the official new rules somehow.

Completely, however the few people on warseer who are giving up information have set a precedent of accuracy. I also mentioned I was running stats based off of rumors.

I belive I probobly speak for many of the less mathmatical on the forum when I say what the hell does that mean? Explain it in laymans tearms please.

I'm fairly good at math and that chart means nothing to me.
Sorry.

Hmm I'll try to make it more clear then.

The Columns are the armor value of the opposing unit,
The Row's are Toughness value of of the opposing unit.

The numbers in the chart are the number of wounds a single model of that unit type will do.

So if we are fighting against empire swordsmen, who are WS4, T3 4+ AS, and we want to figure out how many wounds the Execs do compared to BG:

Both BG and Execs have a higher WS then 4, so we use the WS> (greater than) chart.

Move down to T3, and over to 4+

Execs do .74 wounds per model.
BG do .98 wounds per model.

BG will do more wounds against Empire Swordsmen.

To figure out how many wounds the front rank of each unit does we multiple that number by the number of models in the front rank.

Execs .74*6 -5 wide unit, with 1 extra attack from the champ- = 4.44 wounds.
BG .98*5.5 -5 wide unit, .5 extra more attacks from the champ then standard BG- = 5.4

If I have time later today I'll add how many wounds a 5 wide unit does, and witches, and the rumored cauldron to the chart as well. If you want to use them with a wider frontage then 5, your welcome to do the basic multiplication to figure out your average active CR.

Is this more clear?

[Slerac fellblade]

I have 3,000+ points of DE, I can feild a minimum of one unit of every type in the current list except cold one knights. I can feild each special character except morathi. I also technically have an addition 1,000+ points of cult of slaanesh. all the release may do, is make me get a second unit of corsairs because they are sexy, and cold one knights. New spcial characters and character models would be nice but the dreadlord looks like ass so i guess it's again converting allmy hero's again.

[Master of arneim]

I'll probably field a mono infantry with 2 units of black guard and a big one of executioners. Probably I'll put in also a standard bearer.

In Black guard we trust because we have the power!!!!!!!!!!

[Slerac fellblade]

See this is what pisses me off we get ametal dreadlord and metal mounted dreadlord in our release yet HE got plastic character sets same for our wizards. WTF! This is why i think the book will be total ass.

[Izirath]

I hope that I can finally field some BG that are worth it, I have yet to use them. But I don't think they're worth it as they are now, I don't even wanna paint em right now, too lazy.

[Dalamar]

See this is what pisses me off we get ametal dreadlord and metal mounted dreadlord in our release yet HE got plastic character sets same for our wizards. WTF! This is why i think the book will be total ass.

Metal > Plastic

plastic is good for conversions, so get base metal character (like we will have) get box of HE heroes and convert away!

[Slerac fellblade]

ummm have you seen the foot dreadlord...seriously it looks like ass. At least if it was in plastic there would be more cutomization possible.