Word from someone with the new book

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Derikari
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Word from someone with the new book

Post by Derikari »

... or so he claims. Take it with what ever amount of salt you want. Nabbed from 40k Online, which was nabbed from somewhere else. Just thought it's interesting.

Dingareth -

So I got to read over the Dark Elf Book today, and God it is nice! Basically most of the rumors were wrong that I've seen at least.

Lots of little bits from what I remember:

Everyone gets Hatred, and Eternal Hatred against High Elves

Lokir Felheart, the Corsair hero, get an extra attack per rank bonus
Kouran, acts as a unit champion and makes the Black Guard unbreakable
Tullaris, the Executioner champion, is a bit of a paper tiger, just make sure he strikes first, and you're almost guaranteed a dead Character
Malekith, is in but the Destroyer and Hand of Khaine are now one weapon, that takes away magic levels too

On the magic item side,
There are Hydras Teeth which can be used as a stand and shoot reaction, causing D6 S3 hits per tooth used, you get 5 to start with.
A nifty little Ward save that is the inverse of their strength. So, if you get hit by a strength 2 hit, roll equal or less than the strength to block the attack, but a 6 always fails. So for S6+ you have a 5- Ward Save
Web of Shadows is in
The Draich give +2 S on the charge, striking at initiative, and subsequently +1 S
Gifts of Khaine don't count against magic weapon allowance any more

For magic,
All the spells are back, plus one that creates extra power dice, but if you don't use those dice, you take wounds

Units
Executioners, do NOT auto wound, in fact they haven't really changed at all
Black Guard are Stubborn and Immune to Psychology
Witches are sick, and can really be bolstered by the Cauldron, which can move now, still can't be hurt and can give units with 18" a 5+ Ward amongst other things.
Corsairs can get hand bows, which count as an additional hand weapon in close combat, or shields, for a 3+ save
Repeater Crossbows and Bolt Throwers stay the same as they are
The Hydra is nasty now, along with the Manticore having Killing Blow


This was just a quick glance over the book, I may have a more detailed summary later on in the week.

Alright guy's I've just registered here, and thought that y'all should have priority to hearing these new "rumors" (wink wink) first. Thanks to JaqTaar for the shout out.

Alright, my first post was fair poorly written, I was just trying to get something up. Now then:

In addition to the inverse ward save, there's heavy armor with Regeneration, so you have the ability to make a 1+/inverse of strength/4+ Lord.

The Cauldron can confer the 5+ Ward to one unit within 18", my mistake on that, along with other abilities like ASF, I think. It also give a 4+ Ward to the crew of it, and you must randomize shooting between it, which is unkillable, and the crew, so they effectively have a 3+/4+ save.

With the Hydra's Teeth, you have 5 of them to spread throughout your army, if you take the magical item. You can spread them around, or stack them all in the same unit, you just get 5.

Mini-Assassins made the cut into the book, they'll be a great way of taking out Heralds in the Demon books.

As for those who don't like special characters, I'm sorry because this book has a lot of great fluff and models for them, and rules wise, they really help out. Tularis (I think, the Executioner one) and Kouran are both paper-tigers, but really help out their respective units, but at a rather hefty points cost.

Lastly, for those who are skeptical, I'm sorry it can't be the way the wish list rumors were, but we all can't Always Strikes First... how else would those High Elves feel pretentious with out it?

EDIT: Also, I'm reading through some of the shitstorm I've caused, and it seems that y'alls crossbows do get Armor Peircing, I thought they got that in the downloadable rules set a while back, sorry!


Randoms –
Some more stuff (didnt bother to look through the entire thread so sorry if its a repost):

Shades: getting BS 5, and access to additional Hand Weapons and Great Weapons

Black Guard move to special

Assassin is unit upgrade and gets cheaper (around the cost of the current Noble). The combination of skills and magic items now make them really nasty.

New Hag Hero choice that can take the Cauldron of Blood as an upgrade (like the Casket of Souls or the Anvil of Doom)

Beastmaster becomes upgrade for Hydra and moves away from Hero choices (not 100% sure on this one...)

Magic Banners are much improved, one of them giving ASF to the unit.

Harpies are core but do not count for minimum core, otherwise stay the same

Executioners stay the same

Hydra gets regeneration and various upgrade possibilities

All Dark elves get an increase in WS, so the basic warrior is WS5 and elite infantry is WS6 (not sure about this one either)

Apparently they want to make Dark Elves the most aggresive and professional elven soldiers, their constant warring making them better overall fighters on the invidual basis than other elves

I have seen the minis and they are all very nice, specially the Knights and Corsairs, costing only 27 dollars for 5 knights/10 corsairs!



Frenchies!
Cal'Mihe wrote:Some more translations:

********

PERSO:
140 pts le nouveau dynaste pour les meme caracs...=s


Characters:
140 points for the new highborn

Bases:
aLAnciers sans modif', 6pts pieces,7 avec boucliers. L4état majors est a 6pts le champions,6 pts l'étandar et 3 pts le musicos!!! Donc ça fait que 155pts les 20 lanciers!!=)


Spearmen:
6 pts a piece, 7 with shields. The command group is 6 points for the champion, 6 for standard and 3 for musician. This gives 155 pts for 20 spearmen!

Arbalétriers:10 pts pieces. LE champion a CT de 5! L'état major est a 10/10/5.


Crossbowmen: 10 points a piece, Command group is 10/10/5

Cavaliers Noirs: Changes pas mais a 17 pts pieces,21 avec RxB.


Dark riders: Does not change but are 17 points a model, 21 with RxB

Harpie: C'est de la base. 11 pts pieces si je ne m'abuse. Elle peuvent utiliser le Cd du général et ont une regle"Betes" qui revient a la regle "insignifiant" chez les gobs!


Harpies: They're core, 11 points if I remeber correctly. They can use the LD of the general and have a rule "Beasts" which resembles the rule "insignificant" ("Nobody cares") at the goblins.

Spéciales:

Gardes noirs: Pour moi la meilleurs unité du LA: 13 pts/figs Relances toujours leurs Attaques ratés!(regle "Guerriers D'élite"). Plus de restriction "0-1" Peuvent prendre Kouran comme champion pour 75 pts. Kouran c'est 2A, F4(F5 avec la hallebarde) et une armure qui fait qu'avant de taper, avant les touches d'impact de char ect ect il faut faire un test d'endurance ou ne pas pouvoir attaquer!!! (Fatal pour la célérité d'asuryan!^^)


Black Guard: For me, the best unit of the army book: 13 points/model, can always reroll their attacks ("Elite Warriors" rule). No more 0-1 restriction. Can take Kouran as champion for 75 points. Kouran is 2A, S4 (S5 with halebard) and an armor which, before strikes, before impact hits etc, anyone who wants to attack him needs to roll a toughness test or they cannot attack. (Fatal for speed of Asuryan!)

Exécuteur: 12pts/figs, +1F toujours le coup fatal, mais sont Khainites (je vous expliquerais cette regle plus tard)


Execs: 12 points /model. +1S, always killing blow, but are Khainites (I will explain this rule later)

Furie:10pts, Matriarche peut pendre des Dons de Khaine et peuvent avoir un chaudron de sang(désolé je ne me souvient plus du cout en points...!^^)


Witch Elves: 10 points. Hag can take Gifts of Khaine and can have a cauldron of blood (sorry I don't remember the points cost)

Char: 100 pts, 1 seul/slot, sav3+ aurige F4

Chariot: 100 points, 1 pr slot, 3+ save, driver S4

Chevaliers sur sang froids:27pts +1F

Cold one Knights: 27 points, +1S

Rare: Baliste reste les meme

Hydre: Haaaaaa! La on s'attaque a du lourd! Du tres lourd meme! 175 pts 7A 5 PV Régénération, la Force de son souffle est égal au nombre de points de vie restant!

Hydra: Ahhhhh, this one hits hard! Really hard! 175 points, 7A 5W, Regeneration, the strength of the breath weapon is equal to the number of wounds left!

*********

Straight translations as far as my moderate french will allow ;) All the comments and whatnot are by the original french poster.


SilverHeimdall wrote:
Alors sinon pour la haine eternelle tout le monde l'a!
"Khainite ça marche avec le chaudron en fait! 1 unité dans un rayon de 18ou 24(jme souvien plus tres bien^^) peut choisir l'un:+1A
Sav invul5+
Ou coup fatal!!
Et toute unité Khainites dans un rayon de 12ps autour du chaudron est tenace!


"Khainites works with the Cauldron of blood, can't remember if its 18 or 24" range (sorry!), but anyway 1 of those units can choose either..

+1 Attack, 5+ Ward Save or Killing Blow

And also within 12" they gain Stubborn.

Nothing else on this, so we don't know yet if it takes a rare slot, if its an upgrade, if its still stuck where its deployed...

Pour l'assassin il coute xx pts peut rejoindre toute unité d'infanterie, a relativement le meme profil qu'avant(M5 CC9 CT9 F3(4?) E3 PV2 I10 A3 Cd9) et peut prendre xx pts de dons de khaine! Il a le first Strike!


The assassin now costs (10 less than a RBT) and can join any infantry unit, similar profile as before and can take over 50 points of Gifts and of course, he has ASF.


Corsaire: xx pts si je ne m'abuse, peuvent avoir une arbalete de poing(tir*2 porté8ps F3 avec les tir des contre charge et tout et tout! wub.gif )

J'ai oublié de mentionner le +1A des Gardes Noirs!!

L'hydre a F5 E5!


Corsairs, one point more expensive I think, can take the crossbow pistols (mshot x2, not x3, still S3 and always stand&shoot)

I forgot to mention, Black Guards also gained an extra attack.

The Hydra is S5 T5.

A oui les ombres!!! Comment ai je pu les oublier... alors elle valent xx pts piece mais leurs caracs: M5 CC5 CT5 F3 E3 PV1 I5 A1 Cd8
MAis elle peubvent avoir soit: arme de base supp(+xpts) ou arme lourde(+xpts!!) et l'ombre sanglante a CT6 et 2A!!!(Pour xxpts! wub.gif )

Et toutes les arbaletes sont perforante!!


Shades! Same point cost as the new HE Shadow Warriors, WS5 BS5 though! And they can take additional hand weapon or great weapon. The champion has BS6 and 2A for a high cost upgrade however.

ALL our repeater crossbows (not sure on corsair pistols?) will be 'armour piercing'

So, mengil's manflayers are 'merged' with the Shades, the models are still great though so I'll definitely be using them as Shades.

A oui la magie! Alors ça change pas radicalement si ce n'est qu'il y a deux nouveau sort: Un sort "d'office" qui permet ur4+ de gagner 1D3+1 dés de pouvoir, tout des non utilis se transforme en touche F4 contre la sorciere.
Et un sort en8+ je crois bien qui fait 3D6 Attaque CC4 F3(ou 4...?) contre une unité! Moi j'aime bien!^^ Les sorcieres n'ont plus le +1 pour lancer les sort mais peuvent lancer autant de des qu'elle veulent! (pas super super mais bon...!)

Vous ne voulez rien savoir sur les Om et persos spé?? MEme pas L'endurance de 4 de Malékith??


Magic! Not much change and the new spell ('zero') that gives D3+1 PD is cast on a 4+ and any of those dice that are not used by the end of the phase will do a S4 hit on the sorc.

There's also a 8+ sspell that does 3d6 WS4 attacks at s3 (or s4?) vs a unit. (WEIRD). No more +1 to cast though.

Don't you guys want to know about Special Chars and Magic items?, btw Malekith has T4.


End



Dark Alliance -
No shields for Corsairs
Core won’t be WS 5 (armywide WS boost rumour)
Shades can’t take Repeater Handbows (people wanted 2 hatred attack scouts)
Harpies are core, don’t count to minimum core count
Dark Riders stay core
Last edited by Derikari on Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Vallorn deathblade
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Post by Vallorn deathblade »

is shadowblade in?
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Post by Darkspear »

I remember reading something similar on these forums months ago before they were taken out. I believe these rumors to a large extent.
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Post by Derikari »

Vallorn Deathblade wrote:is shadowblade in?


That's all I've got. He does mention posting more later this week though.

I remember reading something similar on these forums months ago before they were taken out. I believe these rumors to a large extent.


And I never saw those on any forums because everyone took them down. >.< I'll just believe what ever the rest of you say xD
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Post by Masterofdarkness »

Well if these are true then I am a sssaaaaadddd panda
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Post by Monkeylord »

Hmmm.....

  • Without knowing more, Lokir sounds pretty darn cool. I wonder what his weapon(s) are?
  • Kouran and Unbreakable Blackguard = nice
  • Hydras Teeth sound redonkulous! Love it. :) Though a largely defensive item, it makes for a great trap. 5d6 S3 hits will rip the snot out of most units. It's even enough to give small units of heavy cav pause...
  • Poisons/Skills from the Temple o' Khaine having their own points alottment would be fantastic.
  • I would be very disappointed if RxBs do not get the roumored AP.
  • Manticore + killing blow is good. I might actually start fielding them
  • Repeater Handbows acting as an extra weapon OR a shield? Bizarre... never saw that one coming. I suppose that's something along the lines of the Ogre ironfist. Kinda like it... Sorta gives the corsairs their own special fighting style, in a way. Though now, I must say, I can't think of a single reason to field spearmen if corsairs are going to be this awesome. :)
  • Executioners staying the same makes me sad panda.


EDIT: Curses! I wasn't expecting anyone to use the "sad panda" line while I was trying to post... Now I look like a copy cat and a cheat!
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Post by Lodark »

I'd be annoyed if these rumours were true, I was hoping for more.

I see know reason for the Manticore to have KB, hell, not even dragons have KB.

Poisons/ skills would be good.

Rxbs would remain crap.

Repeater handweapons as shields or 2hw just sounds stupid, let alone would look stupid considering the models we've seen. In fact, I think I'll join Azure as a SDICS.

Spearmen at this rate will certainly become redundant.

Executioners will still die before they get a chance to hit back on heavily armoured troops.

My HE opponent would have a field day if I brought a DE army with these new rules, we'd still be as done over as last in the last edition.
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Post by Thanee »

LoDark wrote:My HE opponent would have a field day if I brought a DE army with these new rules, we'd still be as done over as last in the last edition.


We don't need new rules to massacre the high elves, our current ones totally suffice. ;)

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Post by Vallorn deathblade »

Thanee wrote:
LoDark wrote:My HE opponent would have a field day if I brought a DE army with these new rules, we'd still be as done over as last in the last edition.


We don't need new rules to massacre the high elves, our current ones totally suffice. ;)

Bye
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Post by Jayferd22 »

We don't need new rules to massacre the high elves, our current ones totally suffice.


I agree.. I've been whooping HE under our current rules still. They're really not THAT good.
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Post by The buoyancy of water »

I think he means that corsiars can either buy hand crossbows that count as an additional hand weapon in combat. OR they can buy a shield. Not that the hand crossbow can be used as a shield...

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Post by Archdukechocula »

These rules sound far more reasonable than the rumors weve heard up to now. I still begrudge them their universal hatred rule, but so far the rest sounds nice. I would have liked to hear more about units than about heroes and magic items, but the overall theme seems restrained yet filled with nasty surprised and tricks. I like that, both thematically and tactically.

The Buoyancy of Water wrote:I think he means that corsiars can either buy hand crossbows that count as an additional hand weapon in combat. OR they can buy a shield. Not that the hand crossbow can be used as a shield...

Cheers,
Dave


That was my impression as well.
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Post by Crawd »

Thanee wrote:We don't need new rules to massacre the high elves, our current ones totally suffice. ;)

Bye
Thanee


I totally agree with you. All we need is being careful with the current rules. I'm not saying it's easy to beat the HE but it's not impossible.
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Post by Jayferd22 »

I really wish they would strike the army wide rules unless they makes sense (VC)(TK) obvious.
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Re: Word from someone with the new book

Post by Jaqtaar »

Derikari wrote:... or so he claims. Take it with what ever amount of salt you want. Nabbed from 40k Online, which was nabbed from somewhere else.


The source seems to be at Librarium Online btw:
http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/ ... tions.html
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Post by Gastronauticon »

Executioners, do NOT auto wound, in fact they haven't really changed at all


Damn. I bought a box of those a while ago in the hopes of actually using them. Guess not after all...



...also, I do not believe in special characters. The line between spicy fluff and sad attempts to fill holes in underdeveloped army lists is just too blurry in my eyes.
Last edited by Gastronauticon on Fri May 30, 2008 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Minsc »

I take theese rumours with a LARGE pinch of salt.

Why? Because they don't seem to be the same at all as the rumours I've personally, and I got a quite reliable source.
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Post by Rork »

Gastronauticon wrote:Damn. I bought a box of those a while ago in the hopes of actually using them. Guess not after all...


So a cheap, high strength unit with hatred isn't worth having? Strikes me that executioners are still going to be a viable option when the new book rolls around.

And as for shields on corsairs, it doesn't take DA's hints to tell you that it won't happen ;). My money is on them not gaining them.
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Post by Archdukechocula »

Gastronauticon wrote:
Executioners, do NOT auto wound, in fact they haven't really changed at all


Damn. I bought a box of those a while ago in the hopes of actually using them. Guess not after all...



...also, I do not believe in special characters. The line between spicy fluff and sad attempts to fill holes in underdeveloped army lists is just to blurry in my eyes.


Yeah, if accurate, that is a bit of a dissapointment. I don't forsee using execs very often if they just strike in initiative order, unless they get some other unmentioned upgrades of some kind. Granted, with hatred they are a bit nicer, but the strike in initiative order at +1str isnt much better than striking last at +2 str.
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Post by Heh »

These rumours sounds like a more plausible and less wish-list kind of army list. Which is good.

But what's bad is that I don't have faith in GW in keeping the power creep in check for the coming books, which would result in a repeat of post-revision DE.

The truth of the matter is that WHFB has evolved into a game where special rules directly determine the strength of an army. But there are still too many unknowns. So we'll juz have to wait and see....
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Post by Lord_jimmy_ »

I agree with Rork, executioners are still viable. Initiative order makes them more viable. Dark Elves nearly always get the charge so 2+ Strength is usually guaranteed in the first round of combat. Who knows, maybe another interesting rule will be given to them aswell. They are still the ultimate infantry flankers in my opinion.
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Post by Aginor26 »

agreed. never used a special character. never will
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Post by Lodark »

Here's something, if it says they strike in initiative order would they counsel out ASF, or is that just wishful thinking and does it mean they just count as not having a GW?
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Post by Archdukechocula »

LoDark wrote:Here's something, if it says they strike in initiative order would they counsel out ASF, or is that just wishful thinking and does it mean they just count as not having a GW?


Why would striking in initiative order override ASF? Units normally strike in initiative order.
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Post by The skaerkrow »

LoDark wrote:Here's something, if it says they strike in initiative order would they counsel out ASF, or is that just wishful thinking and does it mean they just count as not having a GW?
It means that Draichs are now Halberds with +1 Strength on the charge. That's all.
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