Rumor Discussion Thread

[Master of arneim]

And how many of us have seen how much damage a unit of Khorne worshippers can do once they get into combat... It's all about the tactics
I like the idea of a partially uncontrollable weapon - makes it even more exciting to

a) prove that you can manoeuvre it into combat

b) watch what it does in combat

HUZZAH!

Wait... while when I've a frenzied unit I know that the whole unit will move to charge every possible bait, with only a character I'm forced to do charges with all my models to prevent the separation of my bsb from the unit. Then I've to consider that I should declare also risky charges, just to avoid these problems. This means that I will be more subject to failed charges for missguessing, and this would not happen with whole frenzied units.

This make me truly consider having an assassin in the unit and not the bsb.

[Dark Alliance]

Yeah, it kinda sounds like that... with only COK and BG being able to use all the banners (and not needing any of them).

Though I'm sure there are at least some banners for 25pts and below, too.

I am struggling to understand the point of a bunch of different, useful, banners making the list if they turn out to be unavailable to the vast majority of our units. I doesn't really matter how many units can take a 25 pt banner if the useful banners are all over 25 pts

I am in total agreement here. All was fine until they bumped up the cost of the ASF banner to 35pts

[Mordru]

It sounds like another last minute "fix" that is ill advised and unwarranted. Like rhb shooting 8" and not counting as xhws in combat. HE archers only shooting in 1 rank an other assorted decisions.

[Endymion shazz'khadar]

@angelmar: if I am not wrong the BSB hag has only one free hand as she must carry the banner, so one attack less, isn't it? but still a really cool fighter

btw: if she actually is frenzied a problem might be that she always must charge out of her unit if an enemy is close

[Mordru]

@angelmar: if I am not wrong the BSB hag has only one free hand as she must carry the banner, so one attack less, isn't it? but still a really cool fighter

That is not a rule in any rulebook in WFB. Thankfully.

[Getwisteerd]

If the BSB has the ASF banner though charging is less improtant, so you could put some harpies in front of the unit to prevent the death hag from charging things she shouldn't

[Riker666]

If the BSB has the ASF banner though charging is less improtant, so you could put some harpies in front of the unit to prevent the death hag from charging things she shouldn't

sober. 150 points of bsb, 66 points of harpies and a minimum of 120 points of execs to obtain what the swordmasters do with only 150 points, with more attacks

[Kheirakh]

What is it with GW that they have to change the "normal" rules all the time. Core units that take 25 pts magic banners - fine. But also special units that can take only 25 pts banners - lame. It should be 50 pts with all specials.

Why DE get these restictions all the time? Demons and Vampire counts were not restircted! This is stupidity!

[Riker666]

What is it with GW that they have to change the "normal" rules all the time. Core units that take 25 pts magic banners - fine. But also special units that can take only 25 pts banners - lame. It should be 50 pts with all specials.

Why DE get these restictions all the time? Demons and Vampire counts were not restircted! This is stupidity!

HE neither. But I guess we shall just swallow and do without those banners... And many of the 25pts ones are not yet known, there is hope

[Dark Alliance]

I can see why WEs were limited to 25pts as Hellebron makes them core, but Exes???

[Mordru]

I am thoroughly mystified about the 25 pt banner decision as well. It certainly does make BG even better and will likely cause me to run WEs and EXs (when I run them) naked or at least without standards.

[Iyagd]

I can see why WEs were limited to 25pts as Hellebron makes them core, but Exes???

Well, GW probably wants us to take more troops than characters, to make armies more 'unit orientated', so for real boost we will need to sacrifice Hero slot for BSB, otherwise occupied by some killing/casting machine

[Saithis]

I can see why WEs were limited to 25pts as Hellebron makes them core, but Exes???

if thats the reason i would like to get rid of hellebron!
really - a special char should be no reason for that. at least get rid of her special rule... i don't like the idea of playing against Teclis or Tyrion - so my friend does not field them. in return i have no intention of using this herohammer stuff.

i mean - it's no good thing if your opponent celebrates the dead of the "undying witchking" for example... special chars are lame unless you want to play something big, epic...

[Endymion shazz'khadar]

I'm sorry if I'm being redundant but I must confess that I somehow lost track of the rumours to some extent reading through all the 50+ pages. could please someone confirm the following statements and questions, if possible?

I think that an update of the rumour roundup would be very useful at this point of the discussion (BTW, thanks a lot for the marvellous job DA and Milney!) but I'm too much confused about the rumours to do it myself

MAGIC:
black horror: partially covered models are also effected by the spell, no need to roll a 4+ ; range of BH is still 18''.

HAG QUEEN /CAULDRON

Hag Queen can ride manticore and cauldron? (any other mounts also?)

What is her points allowance of Gifts of Khaine? (she can't use magic items, right?)

crew of the cauldron is still unbreakable?

CORSAIRS

how does the corsair flee rule work now exactly, im confused...

if they choose to take two RHB, can they still defend themselves in CC? they must have at least one handweapon left, don't they?


ASSASSIN:

has ASF? (no other units by default, right?)

can't take magic weapons, magic items, magic armour?

his poisoned attacks are only in cc (so no poisoned rxb/shuriken)?


MAGIC ITEMS:

what is the range of hydra teeth?

GIFTS OF KHAINE:

can be combined at will and as taken often as wanted (as long as within points allowance)?

are shuriken at -1 to hit because of multishot? what about movement and long range? (although BS 9 means it doesn't really matter )

can the shuriken be used for stand and shoot? (aaa S7 stand and shoot would be really cool )



Thanks a lot in advance! I know, I'm asking a lot of questions. feel free to skip it, if its too much but I would be glad to have these things clarified/confirmed...

[Endymion shazz'khadar]

@angelmar: if I am not wrong the BSB hag has only one free hand as she must carry the banner, so one attack less, isn't it? but still a really cool fighter

That is not a rule in any rulebook in WFB. Thankfully.

I did't mean that her profile attacks are reduced by one but that she can't take a second handweapon because she must carry the banner...

[Dggrj]

She has a 4+ ws from the cauldron, why would give her a worse one?
And your not 'wasting' a combat character at all that is really happening is the cauldron moves to hero slots from rare and becomes a little harder to kill.

Which is only a problem if you used all your hero slots before, which very few DE armies did.

I actually used all 4 often enough that I think this will annoy me, unless...

So all this talk about her being with the CoB, which is a war machine - normal war machine crews CAN leave their war machines (to go man other ones at least), so I think depending on the wording we may be able to take her away from the CoB, no? Or can WM crews who have fled, for example, and their WM been auto killed when hit (stupid 7th ed rule ) never charge again having originally been part of a crew? Seems like once away they could, and since in the re-crewing example you can have just one model leave... Here's to hoping!!

[Hiss]

I am thoroughly mystified about the 25 pt banner decision as well. It certainly does make BG even better and will likely cause me to run WEs and EXs (when I run them) naked or at least without standards

Agreed
By the way, can we get number models in unit restriction ?
thanks by advance.

[Getwisteerd]

Dggrj: crew away from their machine can't charge, and must always flee when charged. So it won't work.

Riker666: that unit can do much more than those swordmasters. Besides, swordmasters are fun to shoot at, harpies not so much.

[Agelmar]

One thing to remember, don't compare frenzied dark elves to frenzied khorne. Frenzied khorne sucks because it has nothing really to deal with the baiting units. No range and no magic means you can bait them around very easily.

Dark elves should have the tools to easily eliminate these units, as well as a cheap screen unit now. Frenzy should pretty much be a non issue for us.

One question about corsairs, just to make sure. Their minimum unit size is 10 correct? And the banner to give the unit +1 attack is still in as well for 25 points right?

If corsairs somehow had a minimum unit size of 5, I could see them being useful with the two hand bows just to go around acting almost like an impromptu empire detatchment to support block units with short range fire. Ahh one can dream, cant they?

[Venkh]

I can see why WEs were limited to 25pts as Hellebron makes them core, but Exes???

Perhaps it was to make the COK and the black guard stand out as the elite troops in the list?

Executioners look like becoming the new black guard. Only those who love the unit will use them.

I really wish they would listen to the testers and resist the urge to nerf at the last minute. The high elves lost shoot in 2 ranks at the last minute too. Another change that adversely affected the internal balance of an army list.

[Linda lobsta defenda]

@angelmar: if I am not wrong the BSB hag has only one free hand as she must carry the banner, so one attack less, isn't it? but still a really cool fighter

That is not a rule in any rulebook in WFB. Thankfully.

I did't mean that her profile attacks are reduced by one but that she can't take a second handweapon because she must carry the banner...

And that is an old rule that GW is removing. Being a BSB no longer interferes with what he/she/it can carry in the new army books. So you can have 2 hand weapons, or a great weapon or a shield in the new books.

[Endymion shazz'khadar]

thanks, i didn't realize this has changed. (but still no magic weapons/armour/items for them, right?)

[Linda lobsta defenda]

thanks, i didn't realize this has changed. (but still no magic weapons/armour/items for them, right?)

if they take a magical standard then no.

[Dggrj]

Dggrj: crew away from their machine can't charge, and must always flee when charged. So it won't work.

I disagree based on the bottom of pg 86 - I think you could "deliberately abandon [the cauldron]." And after fleeing crew is rallied, at least, they are treated as a skirmishing unit, so why not abandoned crew? However, it does say "The entire crew may...", but based on the wording of characters and crew (previous page)... I think the wording of the Hag's entry will determine whether or not she IS the crew or JOINS the crew, and from there RAW could allow all or some models to leave the CoB, of course leaving with all would be stupid, but perhaps the Hag can set it up, teach the lesser witches how to use it, and go on her merry way slaughtering later on .

[Izirath]

What is the point of having a BSB without a magical standard? I have seen it sometimes but what's the point of it?