Rumor Discussion Thread

[Moonblade]

I like your attitude, Mr.Anderson :}

I agree that we should wait until we see the whole picture. But I don't believe that the ugly pieces when arranged together will result in beautiful picture. I already know enough of the upcoming book to be disappointed. So I must say that I will indeed need to wait for the release to know exactly HOW DISAPPOINTED I am.

Highborn on Black Dragon, nope - no new models for Shader or Black Guards.

[Aspiring executioner]

No there will be no new Black Guard or Shade models. For everything coming out take a look at the spearhead on any of the GW sites.

[Apoc]

@ Moonblade and others: I really don't understand how you can be disappointed. Lots and lots of our units either get better, get cheaper, or both. At the same time, the army tactica that we all love so much is basically left the same.

Sure, the actual book might not contain all the juicy rumoured stuff that we read about in the last months, but considering that most of those rumours are probably wishful thinking by some, how can that be different? Even if they were really playtested, I have enough faith in GW playtesters to know what actually is good, what is bad, and what is just plain cheese.
Of course, some things might be a little worse when compared to average, but other things make up for that. One of the most important things for me is that the new list as it is rumoured nowadays provides ample opportunity for great fluffy armies (think of the cauldron, corsair heavy, cavalry heavy, lots of fliers, magic heavy, etc.).
Last of all, if the playtesters thought something too powerful and therefore decided to drop it: be grateful for that! We don't want to become one of those powerhouses like some other armies are, with no one liking or even daring to play against you, now do we?

Even though the current army is not among the best there is, I love it. Seventh edition will undoubtedly make the army better, so how can I NOT love the druchii under the new edition?

Bottomline: please, everyone stop whining and be grateful for the fantastic looking models and great rules that we are about to receive.

[Moonblade]

"Lots and lots of our units either get better, get cheaper, or both"

- as I said, other races got improved too, so the proportion remains the same.

"I have enough faith in GW playtesters to know what actually is good, what is bad, and what is just plain cheese."

- Oh well. Do you know what was the official answer when GW got asked why do they release erratas so rarely? "Because our writers are rather busy with writing new stuff". How convenient... Come on, why is it so difficult to patch things on the fly. Some issues need just a minor tweak to start working properly but that's not the case - we have to wait for a whole new edition/army book for things to change. And I don't mean DE specifically, I speak generally.

"the new list as it is rumoured nowadays provides ample opportunity for great fluffy armies."

- See? My point exactly. You said it. "fluffy" - not "tournament competitive". The heck with fluffy armies... and special characters. I want tournament-legal list. If I wanted only fluff I would rather read books instead of playing games.

"We don't want to become one of those powerhouses like some other armies are, with no one liking or even daring to play against you, now do we?"

- Oh really? Let's vote on that basis. Btw, see how you contradicted yourself for telling us both that GW have balanced their armies through playtesting and in the same time you're admitting that there ARE yet "powerhorses".

"Bottomline: please, everyone stop whining and be grateful for the fantastic looking models and great rules that we are about to receive"

- Constructive argument ftw. I would rather be a perfectionist and ask for more. Some people here are so accustomed to our weak army list that they become over-grateful for every little, tiny bit of improvement that GW throw at them. No offense given. As a final - I completely agree with you that our new models are superb and so I am grateful for that.

[Ansob.]

- as I said, other races got improved too, so the proportion remains the same.

- See? My point exactly. You said it. "fluffy" - not "tournament competitive". The heck with fluffy armies... and special characters. I want tournament-legal list. If I wanted only fluff I would rather read books instead of playing games.

Have you read the book? Have you played several lists against, say, WE, or HE? No? Then stop claiming that the end is nigh and that GW are going to screw up again. Admittedly, there's a very real possibility that they could, but until the playtesters start complaining that the new DE are as weak as the current ones, I think it's safe to assume they're not.

[Linda lobsta defenda]

ok, enough whining about a book that isnt released yet. You havent seen all the new rules or how they work together. SO you are whining that a book you havent seen isnt as good as you had hoped.

In other words: dont force me to lock this thread because you cant behave, and by you I mean yes.. YOU *points to the offenders*

[Loki]

So, you would like to be a perfectionist and ask for everything? If your army has no weaknesses, then you have nothing to work around, it becomes a no-brainer army. Personally, I would drop my dark elves if they became like that. Why don't you just go play chaos.

[Lord temnir]

Because a noble on peg can trouble your march and the RxB-elves will do the rest?

[Thanee]

I'm reasonably sure that the new Dark Elves will be very competitive, but still among the hard-to-play armies of unforgiveness. Exactly where they should be.

Some specifics annoy me in the new list (only 25pts banner allowance for elite regiments!?), but in the grand picture these are only minor quirks.

Bye
Thanee

[Lakissov]

Agree with Thanee, I also think that we are going to have a very competitive list capable of hurting the 'premier league' lists, while at the same time requiring finesse to achieve good results.

The only thing I dislike about the list is that we don't really have any incentive to use corsairs, executioners and witches. Seems like I'll just have to put up with it.

[Elven prince]

I'm reasonably sure that the new Dark Elves will be very competitive, but still among the hard-to-play armies of unforgiveness.

Even more important: they'll be competitive and fun to play, while looking good on the table...

Three reasons to play DE.

[Vonkrieglitz]

The army got such a boost that I think they will be one of the harder armies to beat at the tournament level!

I mean come on, with the changes to Dark Riders, CORE HARPIES!, Shades with Great weapons, items like the new Ring of Hotek and a 2+ Ward Save pendant, what exactly ISN'T competitive in the list?

Suddenly we move at least as well as Wood Elves and don't even need the woods, hit hard as bricks with a lot of high A high S RE-ROLLING units.
Just because you can't play certain builds to be competitive doesn't mean the army isn't, I'm sure Wood Elf players who want to play all elves, Slaanesh only Daemon players, Zombie Horde themed VC players, and fluffy Sea Guard HE players also were dissapointed that their particular take on the list wasn't as rock hard as some others, that doesn't make their list any less competitive if you use the right tools.

[The buoyancy of water]

Hi,

From what I've heard the list sounds absolutely excellant!! I don't even play Dark Elves but I think the changes will make them even better to play against. From the rumours going around it sounds like the Dark Elves will have many different viable army builds, something that many other armies are lacking (Skaven, anyone..?). Plus, each unit (possibly bar corsairs, but I don't know enough about them) have there uses, which is again something many other armies lack. Combined with some nice items and an interesting magic phase I think the new Dark Elves will definately be great.

Cheers,
Dave

[Scallat]

Ok, so I go into my LGS and I'm all talking to the manager and I'm telling him how while I like the new corsair models I'm much more into spearmen as a cheap core choice. And he's all "How can you not love Corsairs 4+ save vs shooting makes them among the toughest Elves in the game and they've got 3 attacks on the charge" and I'm all "Wait a second, three? Two hand weapons + 1 attack basic...?" (I'm counting on my fingers as he do it.) He's then HE'S all "All dark elves get +1 attack on the charge." And I'm all the "You're joking right?" And he's all "Nope." And then I'M all "You're actually seen it written down in the..." And by this point I'm too flabberghasted to speak to I'm just make hand motions to indicate army book. And he's all "Yeah, totally."

And I was all "WTF?".

I mean, I was completely sure that hatred was all they were getting. Is this just the, now infamous, "LGS staff are always wrong syndrome."? I am baffled.

[Bernh]

And I was all "WTF?".

He is joking actually. But corsairs can have 3 attacks by themselves (without CoB etc.) - by corsair-only frenzy banner.

[Getwisteerd]

Is this just the, now infamous, "LGS staff are always wrong syndrome."?

it is indeed.

[Riker666]

I won't believe in the additional attack on the charge until I see it written on the armybook.

[Scallat]

Well, he gave me false hope in a truely expert manner. Well played that man. Too bad, the idea of 5 attack witch elves was too delicious to dismiss. I should've known something was up when he told me Execs had some special rule for their weapons rather than just great weapons.

[Deep one]

I was toying with some power build options for a Dread Lord yesterday. Is it commonly agreed that the Dark Pegasüß will stay a multi-HP monstrous mount and not be changed like the Mortal Chaos Daemonic Mounts? - This does mean a Dread Lord on DP/Manti/Dragon is a legal target for the CoB boons as he and his mount form a unit by themselves, doesn't it? - If I choose KB from the CoB, would a Dragon get it as well as its rider?

[Zeth]

How about Pit of Shades? Or Doom and Darkness? We don't HAVE to take Dark Magic with the HS if you have the nice staff. Plus, Black Horror is fantastic now, as is the S2 hit on every model in the unit. We have a plethora of nasty magic spells in Dark Magic.

I went over this already.

Besides, what does it matter what other races get? You've got to compare it to options you already have. In addition, I don't think you'll see the light at the end of any tunnel Zeth.

Of course it matters what else is in the game.
As for the tunnel, I think that you not reading my posts then.

I have 4 specific gripes with the book, all of which have led to pages of discussion.
But the rest of the book, all of which I think is good design people have no interest in talking about or don't disagree with me.

The book is much more powerful then the last one, but I'm also not going to be fielding any of the 4 things I find to be poorly done or that have good intentions but are just not quite there.

Zeth, your statements are rather true. Sadly true. Your comments (being totally valid) almost discouraged me to start playing DE once again.

Don't do that, my comments about what I think is bad in the book get harped on by lots of people who take it personally, or think I'm whining.
Yet no one has questioned any of the reasons I think the rest of the army is good.

There are also fundamental points about the army that people disagree with me on.
Like our magic, the fluff says we have the strong magic and many people want us to have good magic, but I strongly believe we don't. Its not whining, we just don't have good magic as a army. So I look to the rest of the things we do well, mobility and CC, something that very very few other armies can match us in. Now with AP RxB we are also probably one of the best pure gunline armies. Lots of shooting of really good shooting, with cheap core harpies that we can use to crossfire units. Allowing us to shoot at something till it panics and dies from harpies, rather then just fleeing and rallying. Not to mention we can probably march block better then anyone with shades and harpies, and we can get mobile shooting from DR's and shades so that when we run out of space in deployment we can still deploy more shooters.

The DE, book is the most fun for me of any army I have played in warhammer, and I've played all of them, through borrowing from a friend for a month, or swapping with my opponent. It is a great army and I certainly don't want to talk anyone way from it.

But I'm also going to state that there are units or options in our list that are just not viable, or to situational.

Through my posts don't forget about the good side of the list, which is also the majority. Look at our bowmen, DR's, Spearmen, Harpies, Witches, BG, Shades, CoK, CoC, and fighting hero choices and magic items. All amazing units.

I am lucky to have friends with all armies so that I could gather a lot of insight on the so called "competitive lists". I almost abandoned all hope for the army.

I play competitively with the Druchii now, in 6th edition, and do very well. These changes, are not going to make the army more newbie friendly, or easier to play. But they will largely increase the power of my list.

Every unit in my list got cheaper and better. I can add shades and harpies to my list and field the same thing.

The only thing that got weaker was the CoB, but the design there is completely understood.

[Bernh]

No, mounts don't get bonuses from CoB. It's specially mentioned.

[Kheirakh]

A question about the corsairs handbows: Can they march and shoot?

[Silverheimdall]

Only Fast Cavalry has ever been allowed to March & Shoot, no other unit with ranged weapons have ever been allowed that, even character in Fast Cavalry may not March & Shoot their weapon.

[Bernh]

A question about the corsairs handbows: Can they march and shoot?

No.

[Zeth]

So, you would like to be a perfectionist and ask for everything? If your army has no weaknesses

I would ask that everything in the army was well designed and thought out. That does not mean that the army has no weaknesses or is no-brainer.

It just means that options like the RHB wouldn't be useless.

Why don't you just go play chaos.

Chaos has many strengths and weaknesses as well.
Like the new daemons core is incredibly restrictive to the type of army you can play, and they lose a huge about of the tactical options in warhammer as none of the units can flee.