Rumor Discussion Thread

[Mordru]

The dagger has been rumored at 25 pts arcane item surely.

PoD bound I thought was pwr lvl (4) and arcane for 55 pts.

Focus Familiar 35 pts ??? arcane.

The appeal of the bound PoD item is it can give your lvl 4 sorceress 2 chances to gain extra dice but that a lot of S4 hits if you get stuck with some. One miscast result of magic phase ends and you could be in trouble depending upon whther than miscast result wipes those dice as well.

[Loki]

Ideally, I would use the bound first and if I only got 2 dice, I would use those to cast the sorceresses PoD spell to try to get a few more.

[Vilicate]

It hasnt, a power level of 5 or 6 will only make the item mediocre at best. One of the worst bound items in the game. Lord only, then we need to successfully cast a spell after anyway. Sure it might get you 4 dice to throw a black horror or pit of shades. But its going to happen infrequently and you had to of not already cast that spell normally.

Just a really weak bound.

I entirely disagree. It's a must stop bound, because if you don't, you're adding at minimum 2 extra dice to your pool, which can be used to cast something nasty. Even if they throw one dice at it, there's still a 50/50 chance it'll go off.

AND you get to use it every turn with a character who has 4 spells. And has the potential to cast again. I think it's a fantastic item for those who want to take a HS on a flying mount.

[Silverheimdall]

Miscast Result 7 - ' loses all his remaining power dice'
Miscast Result 8-9 would hurt. O:

[Mordru]

I prefer the doombolt wand to the new PoD bound item but I can see how it can put some serious pressure on a dispel pool. Stop it or try to stop the next spell.

From a defense perspective I may be tempted to let it go as there is always the chance that even with the extra dice the next spell will fail or even better result in a miscast. People sometimes try spells that I just don't mind them casting compared to spells that really hurt. Typically with undead for example I will let the players build up their units rather than let them summon new ones or dance into me.

[Zeth]

I entirely disagree. It's a must stop bound, because if you don't, you're adding at minimum 2 extra dice to your pool, which can be used to cast something nasty.

A 'nasty' spell like:
fury of khaine?
Danse?
Rod of flaming death?
Banner of the undying legion?

No, even if our mage roll great spells, and doesn't want to cast any of them multiple times, it is pretty much never going to get a cast a spell more powerful then the ones already out there, for cheaper, and don't give a chance of miscast.

[Bernh]

High sorceress uses bound PoD and gets 4 power dice (4)
High sorceress casts PoD on 1 die, sacrifices an elf to add another to the roll and gets 4 power dice (7)

No, you can take or dagger, or bound - they are arcane items both. I don't like this bound - it's too costy comparing other stuff.

Focus Familiar 35 pts ??? arcane.

25, arcane.

Miscast Result 7 - ' loses all his remaining power dice'
Miscast Result 8-9 would hurt. O:

It's rather silly cast with 'mundane' dice when you have 'hot' dice in poll. I would spend 'hot' dice on first spell after a PoD - and no additional problems.

[Decker_cky]

It averages 3 extra dice when it goes off, and assuming it's power level 6, draws 2 dispell dice to accomplish that about 2/3 of the time. Combined with another potential casting of PoD, the spell is something opponents have to stop or face some devastating spells that the high sorceress will have. In some ways...it's even better than the equally priced banner the HE use to get D3 free power dice since this would greatly reduce magic defence or greatly increase magic offence (and you can't just stop the spells on the L4 since the L2's are likely to have big spells too).

[Decker_cky]

Didn't realise that you couldn't have both. To maximize power dice then you'd be 2 lower with the dagger on a lower level sorceress.

There'll be a different tactic to using your magic phase now that there's a greater risk with miscasts. Do pool dice hurt a sorceress, or only the sorceress' specific dice? I think the best thing in general will be to do most casting, then throw 1D at PoD with everyone (2D on the dagger one obviously), much like the tzeentch casters end with boon of tzeentch. Once a caster gets some dice, they use them. Use the bound item last if you have it, since it's not creating a risk until it goes off.

I do think there's another big advantage to the PoD bound item; the sorceress can remain mobile. Having your high sorceress with the dagger sitting in a unit of spearmen will have every typical wizard hunter salivating, whereas depending on a bound item for your dice let's you use a little more creativity with the caster.

[Mordru]

I think the dagger will find a home on a level 2. You can park her in a unit and since she is only casting 2 spells per turn max you can sacrifice away without wittling done the unit to fast. Also, she can pick whatever lore compliments the lvl 4 best based on your opponent.

If the PoD item really is pwr lvl 6 it is going to be much better than I thought. I'd still rather have a wand of blasting but this will be more variable and offer chances to put a lot of pressure on when you decide its worth the risk.

[Azure]

The real advantage of giving the dagger to a Level 2 is it makes your Lvl4 not have to sit in a unit of poor fighting spear elves.

-Rex

[Decker_cky]

Power level 5 or 6 was just my guess since I hadn't seen a power level listed anywhere. If it's 55 for power level 4, it's way overpriced (though still not useless).

[Zeth]

Combined with another potential casting of PoD, the spell is something opponents have to stop or face some devastating spells that the high sorceress will have.

Assuming you rolled a devastating spell, and that you didnt already cast it.

In some ways...it's even better than the equally priced banner the HE use to get D3 free power dice since this would greatly reduce magic defence or greatly increase magic offence (and you can't just stop the spells on the L4 since the L2's are likely to have big spells too).

Besides that HE's is a banner for a unit leaving space for character magic items. HE's doesnt take a lord mage to get, and HE's isnt an arcane item for that lord. Plus the HE banner allows any mage to use the extra dice that it guarantees.

The level 2 are not likely to have big spells, 1/3 chance of a level 2 having a big spell, which is unlikely. Even then that level 2 needs to cast PoD w/o it getting dispelled to really stand a chance of getting a big spell off.

[Bernh]

If it's 55 for power level 4, it's way overpriced (though still not useless).

I just said that it's overpriced
Yes, power level 4.

[Vilicate]

I entirely disagree. It's a must stop bound, because if you don't, you're adding at minimum 2 extra dice to your pool, which can be used to cast something nasty.

A 'nasty' spell like:
fury of khaine?
Danse?
Rod of flaming death?
Banner of the undying legion?

No, even if our mage roll great spells, and doesn't want to cast any of them multiple times, it is pretty much never going to get a cast a spell more powerful then the ones already out there, for cheaper, and don't give a chance of miscast.

How about Pit of Shades? Or Doom and Darkness? We don't HAVE to take Dark Magic with the HS if you have the nice staff. Plus, Black Horror is fantastic now, as is the S2 hit on every model in the unit. We have a plethora of nasty magic spells in Dark Magic.

Besides, what does it matter what other races get? You've got to compare it to options you already have. In addition, I don't think you'll see the light at the end of any tunnel Zeth.

[Thanee]

I entirely disagree. It's a must stop bound, because if you don't, you're adding at minimum 2 extra dice to your pool, which can be used to cast something nasty. Even if they throw one dice at it, there's still a 50/50 chance it'll go off.

It has its uses, but it's WAY overpriced. Should be more in the 25-40pts range.

But the worst thing about it is... it's ARCANE. As such it competes with the Sacrificial Dagger, and to me, the Dagger will *always* win this contest (and it can only be used by the Supreme Sorceress, who also happens to get by far the most mileage out of the Dagger).

If it was an Enchanted Item, as it should be, it would see some use, I guess. Overpriced is not the worst disadvantage for a magic item, at least.

As you said... for a Supreme Sorceress on a flying mount it might be useful, though I would probably prefer the Tome of Furion and two Power Stones then (or the Focus Familiar).

Bye
Thanee

[Murmandamus]

If it will compete then it will compete with focus familiar not dagger because on pegasus sorceress this could be some additional dice even if this is costly.

[Thanee]

You don't have to mount her on a pegasus, though, and I know I will most often use her on foot or horseback, because of the Dagger.

Bye
Thanee

[Moonblade]

Oh heck, the more I read the more grim my thoughts become.

I read almost the entire 43-paged thread and it only reminded me how bad the situation is. I re-discovered what a piece of useless junk our previous item selection was. Aside from GoP which isn't very legal anyway.

Thanee, I must say I agree with most of your comments, you are really very well aware of mechanics - I give you that.

Zeth, your statements are rather true. Sadly true. Your comments (being totally valid) almost discouraged me to start playing DE once again. Which may force me to quit playing WHFB altogether for I don't want to play with other races, I want DE. Ok, I played for quite a long Slan Heavy Magic, Skink Heavy, Gunlines of all sorts including Dwarves, Empire and Skaven. I also played Strigoi Flying Circus and Royal Air Force lists. I am lucky to have friends with all armies so that I could gather a lot of insight on the so called "competitive lists". I almost abandoned all hope for the army. No need of exact examples, there are plenty of them in the past 43 pages. So is my dismal vision.

[Thanee]

Thanks!

Don't give up, though, I'm sure the army as a whole will totally rock, despite the few inconveniences!

Bye
Thanee

[Minsc]

We seem to be getting the most broken ward save in the game for 35 points.

Sigh, it's not broken!
It's utterly useless against wounds caused by sources other than pure-strenght attacks.
People will consider it cheesy in the beginning, but will then addapt and use other means bypass it.

[Archdukechocula]

We seem to be getting the most broken ward save in the game for 35 points.

Sigh, it's not broken!
It's utterly useless against wounds caused by sources other than pure-strenght attacks.
People will consider it cheesy in the beginning, but will then addapt and use other means bypass it.

I'm not sure I would go so far as to say it's broken, since I don't necessarily see any exploits that go with the item, but I would say that the item is so damn good, that it is pretty much a no brainer choice. I don't think magic items should really be no brainers personally.

[Moonblade]

[q]"Hydra's Teeth
Gives the bearer 5 teeth. Any number of these can be thrown, each one causing D3 WS2 S3 attacks on the target unit."[/q]

So, all the 5 charges are located within 1 character. But you can use any number of charges at once. However when and how could they be used? As stand-and-shoot reaction to charge or normal shooting phase? Initially I was quite happy with this item concept but I just so realized that it has a WS parameter. WTF! if use all the charges at once (5xd3A = ~10A) against basic unit with WS4, T3, AS5+ we will end up with: 3 wounds inflicted. That if hatred affects this item which isn't certain.

[Mr. anderson]

Zeth, your statements are rather true. Sadly true.

They may be. But I really think that we should leave the complaining (some may call it whining) until the book has been released. I think the time before the book should be more of an exciting time of anticipation rather than a depressing period before the impending doom hits us

HUZZAH!

[Highborn on black dragon]

I don't have the nerves to look 45 pages, so can someone please tell me, will there be new Shades and Black Guard models?