Corsair Army Fluff and Tactics in new dex

The bucket · Post by **The bucket** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:40 am

After playing dark elves for a month i found out about the new update coming soon.... After looking at the models i decided to go online for help so i was wondering if corsairs and shades would make a good army base?
I was thinking about using cold one since i like the models and i thought they kind of go with the theme... however i was wondering if they'd be any good in the new book or not?
Well i just want to know what units make a fluffy corsair army?
and what units are expected to do well in the new book?

Thanks Steve

Zeth · Post by **Zeth** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:57 am

The Bucket wrote:After playing dark elves for a month i found out about the new update coming soon.... After looking at the models i decided to go online for help so i was wondering if corsairs and shades would make a good army base?

Sucks that GW does not marketing to tell you the book was coming out =(
Shades will be a great new unit it seems, Corsairs not so much.

I was thinking about using cold one since i like the models

have you see the new ones?http://deadtau.blogspot.com

and what units are expected to do well in the new book?

Unfotunatley, not corsairs.

Masterofdarkness · Post by **Masterofdarkness** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:05 am

Well in regards to if they are good or not since half the people are like" o my god they suck" and half are saying " this is a solid update I am glad we will finally be competitive"(thats me) Then I will put it to you like this. The cold ones were decent before but have gotten better with a few new options available. A raider themed list from what DA and others have said is possible. From what I have seen is that a raider themed list is perfectly capable of being competitive.

The list will consist of mainly bolt throwers, dark riders, corsairs, shades(?) and if you want then Cold ones. But the main thing to remember is that you are going to be playing this army. It is your army, you can make any story you want. So pick the models you want to use, read the rules and throw up a few armylists on the forums before you buy the models and people will help you tweak them.

edit - COB, Witches, Dark riders, executioners, COC, COK, our new magic abilities have all been complained about, I think there is more but I cant remember off the top of my head.

Zeth · Post by **Zeth** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:10 am

masterofdarkness wrote:Well in regards to if they are good or not since hlaf the people are like" o my god they suck"

If you mean the list in general, I have not seen one person say that. If you me corsairs specifically then yeah, thats me.

The griefbringer · Post by **The griefbringer** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:12 am

Corsairs are getting better in the new book (Hatred, Slavers rule, handbow options), but aren't getting as much of a boost as most other options, hence some people's skepticism.

I have used corsairs a lot and, to be honest, they have never really let me down. They don't perform spectacularly, but they are a solid core unit and should remain so. Plus the new models are quite fetching.

In my limited experience with the Raiding list, I've found the trick to be figuring out what to do with your corsair blocks, which occupy a space neither hammer nor anvil (i.e. they won't break anything on the charge, nor can they hold a charge themselves). They need support, and lots of it. Take DRs, COKs, and pretty much anything that can break ranks.

Harpies will soon be core, too, and very fluffy for the Corsairs. A useful, cheap screening unit to mess with the enemy and knock out his isolated characters and warmachines.

Red duke · Post by **Red duke** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:30 am

Corsairs appear to me to be getting significant boosts in Hatred and stand-and-shoot handbows, and have always seemed to work well for those who run them (I prefer Shielded Crossbowmen). I will, however, go out on a limb and say that I actually prefer the old metal Corsairs to the new ones. The cloaks wrapped around the old ones actually gave a sense of protection; the new ones just look like they have hide capes.

Masterofdarkness · Post by **Masterofdarkness** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:53 am

The backs are all scales

Vilicate · Post by **Vilicate** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:31 am

Corsairs will be a really nice unit choice. I can definately see them backing up large blocks of spearmen, armed with handbows, and then used as a flanking/pursuing unit. Basically, they'll be a staple I think in an infantry-heavy list.

They'll be pretty solid backing up spearmen under the effects of a cauldron. Also, I can see them with two hand weapons and killing blow (from the cauldron) being pretty nice.

I dunno, I'm torn between making a corsair themed list or a hellebron list. I'll wait until I see the book I guess.

Getwisteerd · Post by **Getwisteerd** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:05 am

and what units are expected to do well in the new book?

Dark riders
harpies
shades
black guard
Cauldron of blood (depending on the rest of your army)
And I'm not yet sure about the war hydra. If he really benefits from hatred he will be rather hard-hitting (7 S5 attacks + 4 S3 maybe AP attacks, all with hatred) and a S5 breath weapon is always nice

Corsairs don't seem worth it for me, there is nothing they can do that other core units don't better. Spearmen make better ranked units, repeater crosbowmen make better shooting and dark riders make better flankers.

With that said, if you like them just use them, it's not like you significantly handicap yourself by using corsairs.

Khel · Post by **Khel** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:11 am

I heard a juicy bit of information that Lokhir Fellheart (the Dread Pirate) has the ability to use magic and give his troops the ability to breathe underwater. How awesome does that sound? Just picture huge groups of corsairs stepping into the icy cold water and then reappeared in the center of the enemy docks and firing their hand bows stealthily before darting back underwater.

Corsairs are certainly getting better however these shall be the units that will shine.

CoB and pretty much all Khainite units (Witch Elves, Executioners, Assassins)
Shades
Sorceress'

However, all our units are going to shine with Hatred but these are the units which I believe will be the most common within our new army lists.

Post by **Drainial** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:00 pm

I get the feeling that some one had been watching pirates of the carabian before making that up (not that its a bad thing). Though your handbows would be ruined by the water. Meh, what do I care, its fantasy afterall.

Yoshitomo · Post by **Yoshitomo** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:02 pm

Be fun playing lizardmen if he does let them breathe underwater...

Post by **Drainial** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:21 pm

Only if you play on a board with so many rivers a normal army cannot move. Aquatic is ususaly a pointless rule and rarely a great advantge.

The adept · Post by **The adept** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:22 pm

Drainial Shadowheart wrote:I get the feeling that some one had been watching pirates of the carabian before making that up (not that its a bad thing). Though your handbows would be ruined by the water. Meh, what do I care, its fantasy afterall.

A real-world crossbow would be ruined, but it should be possible to make one that would survive. I'm thinking treated/lacquered wood for the main body, a steel string (so it doesn’t stretch in the water), and either oiled feathers or slivers of cartilage (maybe from a shark, as their entire skeleton could be used) for the fletching. The maintenance would be harder, and the steel string would need regular replacement, but I think it would work. I’m not so sure about the ‘repeater’ part of it, though.

A bigger problem might be their waterlogged armour/robes/clothes impeding their movement and ability to fight.

Yoshitomo · Post by **Yoshitomo** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:36 pm

More seriously, I think Corsairs could make a rather nasty baiting unit, particularly against horde armies.

Think about it...

Bare-bones 10 strong unit of corsairs, lined up in one rank, marching right up to units such as Swordmasters/Flagellants/Rat Ogres/Ghouls, unloading 20 str 3 shots, then forcing the opponent to either charge the corsairs (and take a further 20 str 3 shots from stand and shoot) or, risk taking another round of shooting from a unit that is blocking your advance. And all for 100pts per unit (alledgedly).

The above tactic is even nastier if you position your corsairs so that when they inevitably break in combat, the pursuing enemy is open to a flank charge from one of our hammer units - e.g. War Hydra.

I think I will have great fun baiting enemy units out of their battle line, something they may struggle to stop me doing, given corsairs' 4+ save vs shooting...

With the new corsairs potentially being as good as they are, along side cheap/effective RXBs and Shades with Great Weapons (Str 5 hitting on rerollable 3s...woohoo!), means MSU imho is definitely the way to go.

Black Ark Raiders will definitely be my theme with the new Dark Elves...

My list will probably be:

Master with Crimson Death, heavy armour + seadragon cloak (in corsairs)
Sorceress + 2 dispel scrolls
10 Corsairs + Handbows
10 Corsairs + Handbows
10 Corsairs + Handbows
5 Dark Riders
5 Dark Riders
10 RXBs
10 RXBs
10 RXBs
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
7 Shades with Great Weapons
7 Shades with Great Weapons
5 COKs
5 COKs
War Hydra
RBT
RBT

2000 pts

Wolfsnap · Post by **Wolfsnap** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:37 pm

Wait, so Lohir makes them aquatic?? Damn, I had heard a rumor that he would give them some kind of ambushing ability, which I would have actually loved to make use of.

Post by **Drainial** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:39 pm

Maybe he does, but hereing that he makes them able to breathe underwater made me think aquatic. I dont know realy.

Izirath · Post by **Izirath** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:09 pm

Aquaman! New nickname?

Masterofdarkness · Post by **Masterofdarkness** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:35 pm

Davie Aquakraken YYAARRR. I think the breath underwater is more of a fluff piece. Breath underwater doesnt help you move underwater.

Khel · Post by **Khel** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:16 am

When I said Lokhir can make his corsairs breath underwater, I meant in fluff terms.

Izirath · Post by **Izirath** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:22 am

Yeah but it would be pointless and fun to nag about aquatic, what would be the use of that haha?

Yoshitomo · Post by **Yoshitomo** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:16 am

Trying to remember the rules for "Aquatic" creatures...do they get to charge out of water terrain as if it were clear terrain? If so, Corsairs would make brutal flankers, especially against cavalry...

I think you're right though, Master of Darkness, it sounds more like a piece of fluff, here's hoping it's not!

Venkh · Post by **Venkh** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:45 am

Personally I was excited about corsairs when the handbows were pistols and the range was 12" now Im not so keen.

This would have put them on a per with the other core units, all of which are excellent.

Warriors are cheap combat res
Crossbowmen are decent fighters and their AP crossbows are now lethal
Harpies are super cheap, lost their main drawback and will be as useful as ever
Dark riders are better than ever and cheaper to boot.

Corsairs will remain just too expensive for what they do.

Not fast enough to be flankers
Not cheap enough for static CR
Their shooting attacks are too situational and make them poor in combat.

I dont think I will be buying more than the 10 that come with the spearhead.

Iyagd · Post by **Iyagd** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:02 pm

Venkh wrote:Not fast enough to be flankers
Not cheap enough for static CR
Their shooting attacks are too situational and make them poor in combat.

Well, they have better survivability as small flanking units, may play role of deatchament for static CR deliverer eg. Spears, good fighting ability (hatred) and better for pursuit and catching fleers (enemy 3d6 substract highest) especially when used as flankers

I agree about shooting -as far i cant find real way to exploit that.

Getwisteerd · Post by **Getwisteerd** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:08 pm

Dark riders make better flankers though, they hit harder (spears) are faster, and thus more likely to reach those flanks. And 3D6 pursuit makes catching enemies easier.

They can also be used for other things, like warmachine hunting, mage hunting and shooting.

The only advantage of corsairs over dark riders (as far as I can see) is that they are cheaper and therefor more resilient. On the other hand, dark riders are fast and should be able to not take to many casualties.

Corsair Army Fluff and Tactics in new dex

Corsair Army Fluff and Tactics in new dex

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