Deamons?

Lichemaster · Post by **Lichemaster** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:00 pm

What have you used against Deamons that has used well?

I had a resent game that went bad, more due to really bad fear tests and incrediable ward saves on his part. (gots to make me look good)

So what has worked for you in your games vs the NEW Deamon army list?

Almundis · Post by **Almundis** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:02 pm

RBTs and lots of em....

Lichemaster · Post by **Lichemaster** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:08 pm

He had
2 units of 5 screamers
1 unit of 7 furies

My 2 bolt throwers were dead by turn 3, but they took 2 units out (minus one unit of 3 screamers left at the end of the game)

Master of arneim · Post by **Master of arneim** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:20 pm

RBTs and lots of em....

Rugi · Post by **Rugi** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:42 pm

RBTs and lots of em....

They are very handy but not essential. In my oppinion, dark riders and chariots are the best. One redirects and shoots down units of furies and screamers, the other can bring down almost any non-ranked unit liked flesh hounds and flamers.

RBTs are there just to make a little easier work for chariots.

Actually, DE are pretty good against daemons, especially against heralds only armies.

You can also try with a unit of knights with banner of murder and put inside BSB with hydra banner and your highborn.
Any unit you charge is going to fall (except plaguebeares of course). Just make sure you guard it against screamers!

Raneth · Post by **Raneth** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:36 pm

None of the Core Daemons are that hard - any CR disadvantage and they start to melt. This isn't hard for us to accomplish. Why everyone is so adamant about RBTs is unclear to me - against BLs, 'nettes and Horrors rxbs will offer just as much power, if not more.

Most units can be beaten by
- denying their charges repeatedly
- flank charge the buggers

...

...

...then there are Heralded Plaguebearers, T4, Regenerating, Slime Trailed and INCREDIBLY hard to deal with.

I have yet to find a way to beat a Nurgle oriented army.

EDIT:
I am going to try this against the next Daemon opponent I face, if he fields a Nurgle Herald I intend to remove it and greatly reduce the Plaguebearers' resiliency as soon as possible:

BM on CO, full mundane kit, Web of Shadows
- 103

2D6 S3 hits wounding on 5+, the CO's attack, with re-rolls from the Cauldron of Blood, might just give me a (looong) shot at it.

DR as babysitters/launch platform, of course (why can't this blighter ride a DS anyway! :evil:

)

[llct]kain · Post by **[llct]kain** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:50 am

Yeah - the new Daemons are hard to deal with :-)

I started an army myself after I played the GT heat with druchii and now waiting for the new DE (and have the need for another type of army for some time).

I would distingusih the daemons a bit :-)

First the pure Nurgle list as Raneth discribed - propably the worst list :-)
Pit of shades could help a bit as dominion could. Apart from this try to hit the herald or the planquin (?) which has no regeneration - or draw with DR to get a flank with fully CR from spearman.

Slaanesh, if played will steal you all fast cav in turn 1 so cutting away the wings of our army. If playing them try to hide the DR so that no charge from them could be forced by the keeper or a herald.

Thzeenth, just close as fast as possible in CC with the horrors - they have only magic missle spells. When in CC their PD are lost. Here try to get the spell that makes the units to cause fear to avoid the autobreak.

Khorne - have your fun :-)

Thegame · Post by **Thegame** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:06 am

Lets not forget that TZ Heralds can take master of sorcery and therefore have access to any lore in the BRB.

Ive seen Horrors winning combat vs a number of elite troops because of blinding light

[llct]kain · Post by **[llct]kain** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:31 pm

Ive seen Horrors winning combat vs a number of elite troops because of blinding light

Ok I think I missed to stress the point that it would be nice to win the CC vs the horrors, but the main aim is to stay in CC.
In a "typical" tzentch army you could expect two units of hoors giving something like 2 and 3 PDs. If closing into CC and staying there this would make 5 PDs useless.
For the master of sorcerry - the player has to choose one lore prior to the game...but yes it is valid.

P.S. Magic against daemons could get difficult if they take the BSB with -2 to cast for one lore. So if facing a deamon army with BSB it would be good for us to choose from different lores (when fielding more than 1 sorceress) :-)

Jshirey · Post by **Jshirey** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:55 pm

Khorne - have your fun :-)

Alright how would you handle an MSU Khorne army fielding a Bloodthister, Khorne Herald BSB with Greater Standard of Sundering, 4 x 10 units of Bloodletters with full command and Skull Totems (can't be march blocked), 2x 5 units of Furies, 4 x 5 units of Flesh Hounds, and a unit of 2x Bloodcrushers with standard and Skull Totem (again an't be march bolciked) at 2250 pts?

If it gets first turn?

Have fun.

[llct]kain · Post by **[llct]kain** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:30 pm

Ok - it is no easy list, but compared to the three others it is just a massive CC list. with quite different speed.

The question is a bit odd - because it depends highly on the way the enemy plays, terrain and what your army looks like. I would assume an army with HB on DS, Hunternoble, 2Lv2, 2*10RxS, 3*DR, CoK, 2 CoC, Shades, Harpies, 2 RBT:

<fantasy on ...>
So you could not marchblock - but even the DR could shine vs. the Bloodletters when flanking, flank means +1, with 4+4 attacks your chance to kill both bloodletters in base to base is quite good. That would give you (even without own standard) a CR of +3. Which should on average melt away another 3.

If the bloodthirster would come naked it should be easy meat for some RxBs. 2*10 RxBs --> 40 shoots, (on short range) 27 hits --> roughly 3 wounds after WS, add two RBT and it is done. Or charge with your CoK ...

Lots of fast stuff left :-(
One Hunternoble for the furies, the other unit of furies should also get some attention.
Send two CoC to the fleshhounds (2 units) done..
That should be enough to limit the movement and charge arcs enough so that the other units could do nothing.
Perhaps feed the harpies to the crushers to direct them away from the combat till the thirster is done ?

Apart from this going with 1 mage on death and one on dark the Khorne army will have 2 DD !! And -2 on one(!) lore. Should be possible to get 2 spells working each round. One spell in the -2 lore with 3 PD and 2 in the other each with 2PD. Or Dominion with 3 PDs :-)

Kfpm · Post by **Kfpm** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:37 pm

Nurgle unit's are pretty easy to deal with if you can get flank/rear....or just ignore them altogether....only M4. Mine died off to some combined dwarf charges pretty fast. in one game. Just watch out for a herald in there with stream of bile. I love that gift, so much ^^.

Raneth · Post by **Raneth** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:50 pm

KFPM wrote:Nurgle unit's are pretty easy to deal with if you can get flank/rear....or just ignore them altogether....only M4. Mine died off to some combined dwarf charges pretty fast. in one game. Just watch out for a herald in there with stream of bile. I love that gift, so much ^^.

Eh what, 'easy to deal with'?

If T4 regen ItP is not enough
Slime Trail will hammer the nails in your coffin
...it has become a staple for everyone dabbling in Daemons in my group.

Now if you'll excuse me I have an Epidemius model to assemble and paint up.

Lichemaster · Post by **Lichemaster** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:23 pm

It was more my fear and panic tests killed, which hurst when I can't even get charges off to begin with. But I will overcome!

His 2 units of screamers and furies shut down my dark riders, that and his awsome ward saves helped him.
I will beat him next game for sure, I was looking for some sneak attacks

Jshirey · Post by **Jshirey** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:18 am

[quote="[LLCT]Kain"]Ok - it is no easy list, but compared to the three others it is just a massive CC list. with quite different speed.

The question is a bit odd - because it depends highly on the way the enemy plays, terrain and what your army looks like. I would assume an army with HB on DS, Hunternoble, 2Lv2, 2*10RxS, 3*DR, CoK, 2 CoC, Shades, Harpies, 2 RBT:
/quote]

I made one mistake in the list. There are only 3x 10 Bloodletters. The Bloodthirster has Armor of Khorne, Axe of Khorne, Collar of Khorne, and Immortal Fury.

The question isn't quite as odd as it sounds. This is a list that I ran vs a Dwarf Anvil army that I massacred after I got first turn. My opponent was rather shocked by the amount of speed the army had especially since he only got one real turn of shooting at me before I charged into him. I also play Dark Elves and I wanted to see how other Dark Elf armies would play against this army.

Tactics: This army goes as fast as possible across the table. Depending on terrain iand the army its facing t tries to envelope one or both flanks. With first turn it has 7 units plus the Bloodthirster in charge reach. The small Bloodcrusher unit has the ability to exploit a gap in the enemy line if it doesn't charge, move through it and wheel on the enemy's flank because it can't be march blocked.

By the way my 2250 DE army is similar to the one you included above: N on CO, Hunternoble, 2Lv2, 3*10RxS, 2*DR, 2xCoK, 2xShades, 4 RBT

Lichemaster · Post by **Lichemaster** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:29 pm

My army list was from a WD it was John Dale's list but I took the harpies out and added 8 cold one knights for a 2250 point army list.

Bad luck was a factor, I lost 4 knights to 8 S4 hits :cry:

I plan on doing a large Campaign once he gets his army painted.

Freakndell · Post by **Freakndell** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:29 pm

This is a list i ran into on another forum.
Talk about fast, hard and mean!

Keeper of Secrets, Siren Song =475pts

Herald of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, Spellbreaker, Chariot of Tzeentch(White) =225pts
Herald of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, Burning Chariot (Red) =200pts
Herald of Slaanesh, BSB, Steed of Slaanesh, Siren Song =165pts

10 Daemonettes =120pts
10 Bloodletters =120pts
10 Bloodletters =120pts

5 Flesh Hounds =175pts
5 Flesh Hounds =175pts
5 Seekers, Standard =132pts
5 Seekers =120pts

2 Fiends of Slaanesh =110pts
2 Fiends of Slaanesh =110pts
2247pts

What can DE do against a list like that?

Raneth · Post by **Raneth** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:37 pm

New respect for Flesh Hounds... they hit like Knights and make ideal launching platforms for the 0+ASv Jugger Heralds I've been seeing a lot lately.

Sezax · Post by **Sezax** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:20 pm

I have not been playing for a while... harpies cant slow enemy units cause they are skirmish right?

By the way, have RBT same rules in new AB?

No one · Post by **No one** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:16 am

Sezax wrote:harpies cant slow enemy units cause they are skirmish right?
By the way, have RBT same rules in new AB?

no and no
harpies can march block, they can't negate ranks as they are skirmishers.
and RBT lose the -1 on multiple shots.