The new book summary, as reported by Milney

Rugi · Post by **Rugi** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:00 am

i am not sure if it's clear to everyone - CoC has eternal hatred now...

And executioners too! Do any of our heroes have eternal hatred? That would be nice IMO.

Bernh · Post by **Bernh** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:00 am

is there something else he can do?

Yes. Draich with re-roll to wound and +D3 to combat result for defeating enemy champ or character in challenge.

And executioners too! Do any of our heroes have eternal hatred? That would be nice IMO.

All Druchii and Hydra do have. Only mounts without riders and harpies havn't.

Lamekh · Post by **Lamekh** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:01 am

eternal hatred now...

You mean Elite-Warrior....

Hawillis · Post by **Hawillis** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:07 am

Yeah and lets not forget that simply the addition of harterd as a universal rule immediately stops me scoring our army book above 7/10 even if the rest of the rules are perfect.
My whole army is going to have to pursue in a very non-druchii fashion. We give the other races scorn, not some massive desire to run them down.

Saithis · Post by **Saithis** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:42 am

Minsc wrote:
eternal hatred now...

Eternal Hatred is the rule that all Dark Elves get, it's only normal hatred but with another name.
It's different from the Black Guards current Eternal Hatred rule.

damn thx for the info...
i saw this small part of the CoCpage - and was surprised...

well forget about it then :oops:

@Hawillis: guess after playing WHF for some time now i can say this: in almost every game i wanted to chase after running enemies. now consider this - your units are capable of doing (much) more damage and you know about that little problem. hatred gives the army a big boost. maybe some people don't like it because of background reasons, but if you read the darkblade novels it's quite appropriate...
think of the ASF rule. if you play good you have most charges anyway - especially with a fast army. ASF does not help here, hatred does.
i needed some time but now i am happy with it!

Aspiring executioner · Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:46 am

Well I have no complaints of running down an entire unit plus scoring whatever banner they had particularly battle-standards or running down the general's unit. So what if they are in a bad position if they just scored double or triple their points worth. For small bait units you should be shooting them down anyway. I'd give the book 9.5/10 for just the things posted on these forums let alone the whole book.

Matras · Post by **Matras** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:53 am

I would not give the book anything until I've seen it. From what I have heard so far, however, it seems to be an excellent example of how to write a decent and balanced army-book that gives the general lots of viable options when putting together his army. Shame about the brainfarts, though. Still, miles and miles beyond the stuff we had to put up with in the previous edition.

Jankiel · Post by **Jankiel** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:27 pm

I'd give the book 9.5/10 for just the things posted on these forums let alone the whole book.

I will give 7/10.
-1 for extremaly undepriced BG
-0,5 for giving executioners "khainite"
-0,5 for no magic items for Hag (even weapon or talisman)
-1 for useless corsairs, without any useful formation (minimum unit size of 5 or skirmish)

Mordru · Post by **Mordru** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:01 pm

Matras wrote:I would not give the book anything until I've seen it. From what I have heard so far, however, it seems to be an excellent example of how to write a decent and balanced army-book that gives the general lots of viable options when putting together his army. Shame about the brainfarts, though. Still, miles and miles beyond the stuff we had to put up with in the previous edition.

Well said. Agreed.

Dauby · Post by **Dauby** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:25 pm

Executioner's Axe Same as in 6th Edition - as before, in addition d3 wounds, 80 pts "model on foot only"

can someone confirm the "model on foot only" here ???

Bernh · Post by **Bernh** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:39 pm

can someone confirm the "model on foot only" here ???

No. There are no such statement. Fell free to give it to dreadlord on dragon or chariot.

Hawillis · Post by **Hawillis** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:15 pm

Eh. Im very happy with how the army book sounds.

Im overjoyed at WS5 str4 charioteers
Best news I heard was WS4 WEs

Can anyone please remind me of the COs new stats? I cant find them. I was expecting some buff, perhaps 2A each or str5 but I cant find an easy mention of them.

But hatred rly does not float my boat. I dont care about how powerful it makes my units blah blah as long as GW knows how to balance things point wise everything will be taken into account I hope. It destroys my fluffy view of DE (which is a hard pill to swallow).
Also I never ever give much though to the magical items a race has access to. For me 99% of the book is based on the troops and the options. So Im loving the spear men, chariots and new WE that fit with my view on them. I already have loads, I will be getting more

. Oh and a big YES to shades. Bo ya. I was hesitant about the hag queen because IMO WE do not have generals. So Im glad that she is only good for BSB and cauldron hehe.
And yes I have just read a Darkblade novel funnily enough (finished yesterday). It sucked. I wont be reading any more xD.

Rob the dark elf · Post by **Rob the dark elf** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:49 pm

But hatred rly does not float my boat. I dont care about how powerful it makes my units blah blah as long as GW knows how to balance things point wise everything will be taken into account I hope. It destroys my fluffy view of DE (which is a hard pill to swallow).
Also I never ever give much though to the magical items a race has access to. For me 99% of the book is based on the troops and the options.

I have no objection to the Hatred rule. In gaming terms, it makes our units better. Okay so we can't test to restrain when pursuing anymore, big deal. A lot of time when an enemy of mine flees I pursue and chase them down anyway. I'm more than willing to sacrifice the choice for re-rolling hits in the first turn of combat.

As for hatred not fitting the fluff, I'm not bothered. The main reason why I play Dark Elves is for their great playing style rather than their back story. (Not that I have anything against the Dark Elf back story) The idea that Dark Elves hate everone because they see them as a lesser race and hate anyone who would dare oppose them on the battlefield, sits perfectly fine with me.

I agree that the true character and style of an army comes from its troops. However, I really like a decent magic item selection. Magic items add another level to the game and can alter the role and abilities of certain characters, they give the game that extra bit of character - which i really like.

Masterofdarkness · Post by **Masterofdarkness** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:24 pm

Khainite for the executioners makes alot of sense to me, they are after all srevents of the khainite temple. As with all books there are units that are way better thna their points cost(swordmasters anyone, steeds of slanessh with siren banner) and black guard for us. However I feel that eternal hatred is a really solid armywide boost, however it has a drawback and honestly it wouldnt feel right if it was all positives like the high elf one. Demonic is a pretty good army wide rule, however they can not flee from a charge or react and they pay for it with the points cost.. In addition they are limited to CC with most units so are very predictable. This is a very balanced book I feel(however the wording of certain abilities might unbalance in our favor), as with all armies the chance for power gaming is present however in a fair and friendly game(after all that is what most of the books are designed for) with people picking lists that will be fun to play/against it will hold it's own. Sure you could take the power dice army of doom, but would anyone really want to play against that? Shoot my club already knows I wont do but they also know I am a decent general so trying to get as many games in as possible before the new book.

In regards to the cold ones stats i believe they are the same with I2 instead. However they benefit from hatred so its pretty solid.

However back to my thoughts on hatred. Remember before when we had to have good tactics to win a game? Well now we still have to think but in a new way. However this time our troops are better. Remember if they are going to charge and pull one of our units out of combat they are going to have to set up the charge. That gives us at LEAST a turn to prepare for it. Now I cant remember if you wipe out a enemy if you have to overrun with hatred but there is a pretty solid chance that we will kill any small unit that comes along, woot free victory points. If not they could pass thier LD test, or if they charge you on their turn then even if you overrun you still have the movement phase to get into place.

So there are many ways to work with the new hatred(that i love) it will just require that we approach DE with a diffrent way of thinking. I bet on July 18th/19th depending on when stores get their shipments there will be enough killer combos on the website to keep everyone happy.

2 weeks 3 days, let the count down continue.

Bernh · Post by **Bernh** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:07 pm

Sorry, i've mistaken for exec's axe - it's actually 'only on foot'.

Jankiel · Post by **Jankiel** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:17 pm

Khainite for the executioners makes alot of sense to me, they are after all srevents of the khainite temple

Yes, irt makes a lot of sense, but also makes executioners significaly weaker, especially compared to BG. No Highborn or Noble (I hate this new strange names... dreadlord...) can join these unit, they cannot act as a "bodyguard" for our general/battle standard bearer. If we want to field our heroes in a unit of infatry, we have to take BG. Another thing that makes BG no brainer option.

Ah... One important thing - Black Amulet sucks. It allows no armour saves, ward saves and regeneration can be taken as normal. Every powerful enemy has ward or regeneration save => totally useless item, especially for 70 pts.

Deep one · Post by **Deep one** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:32 pm

bernh wrote:Sorry, i've mistaken for exec's axe - it's actually 'only on foot'.

I don't know why ... I have a sudden vision concerning a Dreadlord bearing this axe amidth a multiple-ranked Black Guard unit in front of a Couldron of Blood, flanked by multiple Bolt Throwers ... Death to those who dare to approach, death to those who keep away!

:twisted:

Sorry, I got carried away ... I'll be over there, writing some army lists.

Post by **Calisson** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:13 pm

Done!

I removed all the colours from the previous version (last WE), and fixed a few mispellings and reoganized some of the paragraphs. Result should be more readable.
Next changes, if any, will be highlighted in colour.

Khel · Post by **Khel** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:52 pm

Ah... One important thing - Black Amulet sucks. It allows no armour saves, ward saves and regeneration can be taken as normal. Every powerful enemy has ward or regeneration save => totally useless item, especially for 70 pts.

Hmm, I don't know. You could take Black Amulet, Crimson Death and load your DL (Dreadlord) up on Mundane armour. The Black Amulet is great, apart from it's new horrendous price.

What I'm peeved about is that Executioners Axe hasn't changed much. Same amount of points but it causes D3 wounds, not exactly my mug of beer. However, I can see myself putting it on a DL and him in a ASF banner/BG unit. Some good results good come from that.

Deejayvee · Post by **Deejayvee** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:53 am

Hawillis wrote:Best news I heard was WS4 WEs

First off, let me say I'm fairly new to WHFB and while I've tried to keep up with all the rumours, I've missed some along the way. But my question is, why is WS4 for Witch elves "the best news"? They used to be WS5. Are they cheaper now, or am I missing something?

Minsc · Post by **Minsc** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:01 am

They are indeed cheaper, down to 10 ppm instead of 13 ppm, while maintining frenzy, poisoned attacks and adhweapons.

WS4 Witch Elves are also quite fluffy. (and WS4 with hatred > WS5)

Hawillis · Post by **Hawillis** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:01 am

Eh. I can more see myself getting 10 executioners and pretending they have the ASF banner to scare my opponents.

Deejayvee · Post by **Deejayvee** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:13 am

Ah, that makes sense now. Thanks Minsc.

Lord kalhadron · Post by **Lord kalhadron** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:16 am

Ok, two questions

Does the AP banner affect characters?

Does the magical sea dragon cloak affect mounts? (I guess not :evil:

)

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:32 am

bernh wrote:Sorry, i've mistaken for exec's axe - it's actually 'only on foot'.

Should really read 'only on foot in unit with ASF banner'... :roll:

Khel wrote:
Ah... One important thing - Black Amulet sucks. It allows no armour saves, ward saves and regeneration can be taken as normal. Every powerful enemy has ward or regeneration save => totally useless item, especially for 70 pts.

Hmm, I don't know. You could take Black Amulet, Crimson Death and load your DL (Dreadlord) up on Mundane armour. The Black Amulet is great, apart from it's new horrendous price.

What I'm peeved about is that Executioners Axe hasn't changed much. Same amount of points but it causes D3 wounds, not exactly my mug of beer. However, I can see myself putting it on a DL and him in a ASF banner/BG unit. Some good results good come from that.

I'm not sure that a ward save that bounces 50% of wounds back on enemies and bypasses wounding and armour saves isn't wiorth exactly what it costs... I would strongly suspect is is good value.

As for the executioner's axe, most useful vs armies that can't be killing blow'd...Ogres, chariot heavy, stank heavy etc. But more a niche item than a must have. Not useless by any means though.