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DR with shields? 
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Highborn
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I just had an idea. You could hide your fearcausing huge unit of DR by not using a BSB but a master with the 25 pts gem of fear for a turn!

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Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:51 am
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The Scourge of Khaine
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If the Gem only works on the bearer then you've got fear causing US2 not enough to auto break an opponent (and it only works till the end of the turn... so it's kind of a one trick pony)

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Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:56 am
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Haplo wrote:
I just had an idea. You could hide your fearcausing huge unit of DR by not using a BSB but a master with the 25 pts gem of fear for a turn!


Bingo.

Exactly right as it does affect the whole unit he is in.


Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:28 am
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Highborn
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That could be very usefull and you can now give the master another 25 pts. item to enhance the unit somehow.

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Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:22 pm
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Highborn
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people wanted to have medium cav for long time. by adding shilds to DR we have this choice now
i think it's a nice option to field some DR with shields, because it's not expensive and when playing a cav force you can easily field 1 non rxbow DR unit (and save some points thx to that)... still leaves 2 regular DR units!
if you charge a S3 ranged unit 4+As can make a diffrence, after stand & shoot it's not unlikely that you have 2 left out ouf 5 - with better AS you have 3 left and suddendly a real chance of winning that combat...
because of hatred DR will probably make more charges than before - maybe this restults in less rxbow-DRunits and 1 single point per model is not much... only one successful save on 4+ and points are more than back

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Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:07 pm
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Dark Alliance wrote:
Haplo wrote:
I just had an idea. You could hide your fearcausing huge unit of DR by not using a BSB but a master with the 25 pts gem of fear for a turn!


Bingo.

Exactly right as it does affect the whole unit he is in.


Wow! I had no idea about this item. Truly a "gem" as it effects the whole unit. This is further evidence that although extremely enjoyable, speculating about tactics and formations at the length I am without seeing the book is bound to lead to surprises.

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Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:12 pm
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Highborn
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That sounds pretty nasty! So he can still be a BSB, but carry something else and the gem, avoiding having to take a magical banner! Very nice indeed.

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Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:51 pm
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Delete please.

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Last edited by Mordru on Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:08 pm
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BSB plus regular standard in the unit with the fear gem for +2 combat res from the banners or another option the noble does not have to be the BSB at all so you can avoid the risk of giving up the BSB victory points if things go south.

Noble, Fear Gem, Lance, steed, HA, SDC, Enchanted Shield put a regular std in the unit and you have light cav that for one key turn can turn on the fear.

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Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:08 pm
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Highborn
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The BSB can be very useful for anchoring other units in the battle line however, and as you say, +2 CR from banners helps a lot.

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:04 am
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It's a great excuse to convert up a nice Doomrider unit (10 + FC + Hero). For all those people that wanted no stupid Cav, well here you are. Fast, Decently armoured, and decently hard hitting with Hatred and Spears. Sign me up.


Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:41 am
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Black Guard

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Why not do 1 unit of dark riders led by a fear causing BSB, and another led by a master with the gem of one turn of fear? Gives you a pair of fast, fairly hard hitting, potentially devastating units.


Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:38 am
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10 dark riders with shields and full command would be 215 pts, add the master with triksy trinkets and you have a decent unit for flanking and hell, even to frontal charges against weaker units.. Sign me up!

18" movement, 4+ save, hatred and S4 on charge, plus super DR champion and the master's attacks.. And this is still just from the core section.. And think of the possibilites with the cauldron! And the possibilites to equip the master are almost endless.

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:37 pm
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Highborn
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Well, they should easily break down and slaughter any normal core ranked unit (certain excepts but you get the idea).

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:22 pm
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kheirakh wrote:
10 dark riders with shields and full command would be 215 pts, add the master with triksy trinkets and you have a decent unit for flanking and hell, even to frontal charges against weaker units.. Sign me up!

Welcome Brother!

7th edition has loaded us down with core value. The best fast cav in the game can now claim the additional title of best light cav in the game. Dark Riders swarming over the battle fields, some in the traditional roles harrying and harrassing the foe before their shield bearing brethren charge in to finish them off.

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:33 pm
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Thanks!

A 2000 pts list of fast nastyness..

Supreme sorceress on DP
Master on a manticore
A BsB master on DS

2 units of rxb DR
A unit of 12 DR with shields (BSB goes here)
2 - 3 units of harpies

A unit of CoK
2 CoCs
2 units of shades

2 RBTs
Hydra

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:32 pm
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@ kheirakh
Only one thing wrong with this list...CoC are now a one for one special slot so something in your specials with this list has got give way.

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:36 pm
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Mordru wrote:
@ kheirakh
Only one thing wrong with this list...CoC are now a one for one special slot so something in your specials with this list has got give way.


Wait, can't you have 5 special slots in a 2000 pts list?

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:55 pm
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Only if you are fielding an army of our Asur cousins (they have 6) otherwise you get 4 slots.

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:06 pm
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Mordru wrote:
Only if you are fielding an army of our Asur cousins (they have 6) otherwise you get 4 slots.


Yes, you are of course right. I have played warhammer for like 15 years or so, and still I can't remember everything.. It must be the flu I'm having now.

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Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:52 pm
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Okay my thoughts about the shields for DR's.
Alot of armies have a light cavalry unit at roughly the same power and price as the DR's will with shields. And many players use these units despite their armies having other/tougher options.
With the shield option added we have 3 different cavalry choices. I for one think its a great addition. We can field a complete cavalry based army that will work. Only afew armies in the game has that. And the armies that can field both light, medium and heavy cavalry does use each of these choices for different purposes.
I personally am looking forward to cackling menacingly at my friends the first time they see a Dark Elf cavalry army. I have never made a full cavalry army before as the Dark Elves up until now have lacked the option to go all the way without loosing the ''evil elf'' feel.

EDIT: now gimme mounted Witches or Corsairs!

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Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:03 pm
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I'm happy with the shield option! I absolutly hate my CoK since they always go stupid and lose me games in tournys. When playing tight games at the top tables any small mistake/stupid unit can lose you the game. This have been my experience all during 6th. Now with the option of heavy hitters such as BG/Shades with GW and the hydra/manti combos I think that DR units with shields will be a really nice option. If you also factor in all the other new options in our list such as core harpies and the greater compåetition between our specials I really dont see a place for CoK and CoC anymore. For me it's all about BG/Shades/witches in the specials. Add in our nice mages, ap rbx and combat heros/mosters I see myself playing without any stupid units. Something I'v been longing for since I started playing DE. The new list really plays to our strengths and I think that we need to rethink old strategys and find out how the synergy in the new list works.

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Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:24 pm
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Shade
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Wow... that combination really does open some doors! It also means we can run a genuinely direct-attack strategy, sort of brettonian-esque "line it up - bam!". Could be really affective way of splitting a battle line and forcing units to turn their backs/flanks to some of our other heavy hitters - hydras, etc.


Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:38 pm
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The Aspect of Murder
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Joey_Boy, I agree with you completely. GW dropped the ball by keeping Cold Ones stupid instead of giving them some type of aggressive-type rule like Knights Errant have, or the new Manticore has, etc.

As it stands, despite their improvements, they are still a stupid, unreliable unit in an army that demands precision. Its a shame, too, since the new models are so gorgeous...

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Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:23 pm
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I think the way to make proper use of CoKs is not taking stupidity away from them. You just have to make sure that those knights

1) don`t take up any vital part of your force (and 135 points for five of them really ain't much)

2) give them a role which they can reliably fulfil

A unit of 10 CoKs with full command and all sorts of fancy upgrades just ain't the way to go. Them failing one test means your battle plan is well on its way to hell. But a unit of five with possibly a champion to make the unit a lil hittier is not much of a loss if they fail.

Giving them a role which they can always fulfil... A bit tricky but I found that if you have them in a spot where they can soak up fire (which they do better when they're stupid)and(should they happen to pass their test) can get a crucial flank charge in, then you have made proper use of the unit. If your opponent knows that they are most likely to pass their stupidity test, then he won't ignore them. And if he doesn't ignore them, he has to ignore something else... And if he does ignore them you get another chance to pass your test...

Oh... and doesn't Malus' Mount counteract stupidity in a CoK unit? The model as well as the rules for Malus really are worth making use of, especially if you really want to have (and use) those new Cok models ;)

HUZZAH!

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Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:06 pm
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