Double Cauldron

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Minionboy
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Double Cauldron

Post by Minionboy »

So i was just playing with this idea, what do you guys think about running two cauldrons?

You can make one the BSB and re-roll those failed stubborn panic check, and also either enhance two units, or double enhance one unit (if possible). The idea of 4 attack witches with Killing Blow tickles me pink, as does 3 attack, killing blow and ASF (with banner) Black Guard.
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Monkeylord
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Post by Monkeylord »

Unfortunately, thanks to Voodoomaster's due dilligence during playtesting ;), we cannot stack blessings from two Couldrons. Only one blessing per unit.

As far as two Couldrons... I've toyed with the idea myself. But it's an expensive proposition that sucks up two character slots. Witch Elf heroes are very fighty characters that deserve to see combat. But when you stick them on a Coulron, they're pretty much stuck babysitting the thing until they are charged or shot to death.

All in all, if I were taking a very fighty, low magic and almost no ranged weaponry list, I think two couldrons could be a lot of fun. I probably won't do it, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who will. :)
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Minionboy
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Post by Minionboy »

Yeah, I was also thinking of 2 Cauldrons as a way to fight magic lists. Why try casting spells against a level 4 and 3 level 2's, you can enhance your troops without getting dispelled!

I want to like the idea!
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Tethlis
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Post by Tethlis »

Are we sure there's no 0-1 limit?
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Limenix
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Post by Limenix »

It is not as crazy as you might think.
Naked hags on cauldron cost only 200pts.
That's not too much if you think that lev2 Sorceresses cost 180.

Dispelling enemy spells will be a problem
but ring of hotek on a champion will work nice against that.
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Izirath
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Post by Izirath »

I think two Cauldrons works best if you manage to have many troops which needs to work with each other. Real MSU style. Definetly can see two cauldrons on the field. Though will be a rare sight, at least for me.
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Monkeylord
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Post by Monkeylord »

Tethlis wrote:Are we sure there's no 0-1 limit?
Everyone with a book in hand as confirmed that there are no limits to the number of Couldrons you can take (beyond the number of requisite hero slots for the Death Hags, that is).

So yes, in a 2000 point list, you could theoretically field 4 couldrons.
Dullmentalracket
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Post by Dullmentalracket »

planning a hellebron army with two of them myself. Dont think itll be a great listm but i love the theme and itll be fun.
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Prince daerlythe
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Post by Prince daerlythe »

That would be a scary thought, having 4 cauldrons. It would also be incredibly dangerous, though less so if you were to stack up on assassins to fill the void of fighting charaters.

I would think seeing more than 1 cauldron in any given army below 4000 pts would be rare, and 2 just plain foolhardy. When you buy the cauldron, you get some nice buffs, to be sure, but you then take away a Hero slot and a minumum of 200 points for other things. With that cost, you could purchase yourself a tipped-up Assassin and some extra soldiers.

For anything less than 4000 points, I see 2 cauldrons both dangerous and non-viable - you're just spending too much on them for that size a force.
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Minionboy
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Post by Minionboy »

I don't think the lack of fighty heroes is that bad, a great strength to the DE list is the ability to handle them without using hero slots (i.e. assassins), similarly like an army with 4 sorceresses.

I think 4 is a tad over the top, but I think 2-3 in a 3k point game could definitely serve a purpose.
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Elfik
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Post by Elfik »

I would think seeing more than 1 cauldron in any given army below 4000 pts would be rare, and 2 just plain foolhardy. When you buy the cauldron, you get some nice buffs, to be sure, but you then take away a Hero slot and a minumum of 200 points for other things. With that cost, you could purchase yourself a tipped-up Assassin and some extra soldiers.

Sorry but I would much prefer a choice of three buffs to one unit within 24 inches each turn than an overpriced character without armour. Two cauldrons in 2000pts should be rare but not bad considering army-wide hatred and low-costed units. If you use a cauldron in 1000-1500pts why not two in 2000-3000pts?
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Prince daerlythe
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Post by Prince daerlythe »

I say this because if you do, you will most-likely be outnumbered by a large margin in those games for taking that second cauldron. The trick as I see it is to keep the fighting mostly away from the cauldron, yet in range so it can buff-up your troops. If you're horribly outnumbered and at the same time defending 2 of them, you won't be able to overcome the odds of crushing numbers which make flank charges and move around you to obliterate you while you're stuck up in combat.

That's why I say 2 under 4000 pts is foolhardy, especially against armies that can match us in skill (Daemons, Wood Elves, High Elves, Chaos Mortal and Dwarfs [should they ever try to attack us in numbers])
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Post by Melinia »

Elfik wrote:Sorry but I would much prefer a choice of three buffs to one unit within 24 inches each turn than an overpriced character without armour. Two cauldrons in 2000pts should be rare but not bad considering army-wide hatred and low-costed units. If you use a cauldron in 1000-1500pts why not two in 2000-3000pts?


As was mentioned above, I believe you can only provide one blessing to any given unit each turn.

I say this because if you do, you will most-likely be outnumbered by a large margin in those games for taking that second cauldron. The trick as I see it is to keep the fighting mostly away from the cauldron, yet in range so it can buff-up your troops. If you're horribly outnumbered and at the same time defending 2 of them, you won't be able to overcome the odds of crushing numbers which make flank charges and move around you to obliterate you while you're stuck up in combat.


Yes, and no. The Cauldrons also make any Khainite units within 12" Stubborn (I think that's the effect - I could be wrong). Khainite units are both Witch Elves and Executioners, and with Hellebron as your army general you can take Witch Elves as core. So it would be a very thematic army, but in such a case you might want to keep the fighting relatively close to the cauldrons.
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Mordru
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Post by Mordru »

It will look odd except in appropriately themed armies and I do not see it as cost effective. However, it may be fun and folks that want to go to bother of building and painting two cauldrons should play with them some and let us know how it goes.
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Prince daerlythe
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Post by Prince daerlythe »

Fun, most likely. But still, in my eyes there is little merrit. Because you can only give the blessing to one group a turn per cauldron, this would leave a lot of your WE open to missile fire. And with the streaks I've heard other people boast of on this site about them, I'd say it's a safe bet that a lot of people will see them as a threat.

Not to mention having to play close to that cauldron would take away that which the elves possess over all other races: manouverability. For scrawny T3 elves, it's one of our dealiest weapons, and one none of the 3 elven races are unwilling to use. Our manouverability allows us to dictate the battle, making our enemy meet us on our terms. By playing so close to thae cauldrons with that many WE, it flips the table around on several plains. By fielding so many WE, you would give your opponent the armour advantage. By playing within 12" of the cauldron as much as possible, you give the enemy your manouverability and rights to dictate the battle. After you forfeit both of those, everything else just falls into place for the enemy.

We may not be the fastest (Khaine knows we're still not as good as Bretonnia and the Ogre Kingdoms) but we can outmanouever any other race hands down (except other elves), and the cauldron just takes that away from us if we have too many of them.
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