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RxBowmen and command? 
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Slave on the Altar
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:37 pm
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ok i plan to feild 2 units of 10 RxBowmen in my army and i was just wondering what you guys and gals think about command, do they need it?

I already intend to field them with shields , after having read the other thread. But i got to thinking weather or not it would be best to field them with at least a musician. or even a champ.


what does the community think


Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:37 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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If you ask me, tis not worth it, a champ really dosnt do much, music, same, and a standart os a potential 100 vp for your opponent.

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Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:51 pm
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MAYBE a musician. Definitely not the other ones.

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Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:52 pm
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Shade
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I think you guys should give the champion a chance. I like to take them because it's sorta like the extra attack in CC. When it's 6's on a single shot for the rest of your guys, your champ can do double on 6's. Plus you can issue a challenge with him and save your unit from potential casualties.

I usually take either a champ or a musician.

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Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:33 pm
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Master of the Red Legion
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I often like to get a musician in there if I have the points. I also tend to put a standard in one unit as well if only to say that my army has one in it someplace (I rarely do and it can hurt tournament scores). They certainly don't need them though.

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Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:24 pm
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Slave on the Altar
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thanks for the advice so far.

If i was going to field them as a unit of 20 i might be tempted to put a full command in there.

i'll put a musicain in there maybe if i have points left over me thinks


Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:58 pm
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Actually in 6th edition I ran a unit of 15 crossbows with musician and standard. I would put them on a hill and rain death until they reached me. And usually when they did reach me they were somewhat depleted while I would possibly have outnumber, 2 ranks, standard, and hill.

This meant I could easily see off fast cav units and sometimes full units as well. It worked pretty well and I rarely regretted putting the standard on the large group. For small groups I stick with just shields and a musician for a cheap shooting unit. But the larger unit is viable and is good at protecting a flank along with a unit of Dark Riders and a RBT.


Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:01 pm
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Musician I always put in if I have the spare points, he's remarkably handy no matter what. With the cost of the champ now, and the stats he has, I think he's worth it too if you have the points spare.

Don't forget that this unit are actually pretty good in melee so anything that gives your opponent cause to doubt the good sense in charging them is a possible extra turn of shooting.

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Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:13 pm
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Command on these guys isn't cheap, and the champ has +1BS, not +1A. I see the only reason for a champ is still as a sacrificial bodyguard to challenge an ennemy character. I am going to try the larger unit of 15 with standard and musician. Otherwise, musicians are always good, but if really need the pts, you can go without a musician for a group of 10 crossbowmen.

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Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:06 am
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I cant think of a single unit it is a bad idea to give a musician to.

Mod-edit : This doesn't help very much. It could be a better post if you gave reasons for coming to your conclusion. Like, for instance, you might say that it's always nice to have musicians for those god-awful annoying times when you a draw a combat but haven't got a muso.

There's nothing wrong with adding another positive voice to a discussion, but a little information is always good. Please try harder in future.

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Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:58 am
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I often use RXB with full command. I find that the versatility of the unit is well worth the cost. I have the opportunity to form a wide frontage (say 2 ranks x10 ) which can absorb a fair amount of the inevitable enemy fire. By advancing and then reforming, I then have a good sized unit with which to plug infantry advances-obviously, not something I would do against swordmasters or daemons, but worthwhile with your basic elf/hunan troops. Consider- full command, so you have the banner for CR, mucisian to give a chance of winning drawn CR, hopefully 3 ranks, with a 4+ save when you go in with shields. You are not just paying 10 points/model (11 with shield) just because of the RXB, but because it can stand as a CC unit, albeit in support or as a sacrifice whle you get the big boys and girls in there.

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Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:28 am
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10 with just shields is probebly your best bet, since it gives a cheep and very flexible unit(that can be sacrifced as needed), but i most say that i would be tempted to try the unit with an assassin and a banner (the banner to lure unsuspecting foes to charge the unit, and for the extra cr)

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Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:34 am
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On occasions i have taken a champ because i have a sorc in the unit and if a challenge is offered then he cat take it rather than the sorc, another option.

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Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:49 pm
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Against my dwarf opponent - I play only the muzo. When I get my new book, I"ll try the champ in there.

Against the Wood Elves, I'll add FC. They are useful to plug gaps and provide some SCR after a reform.

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Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:07 pm
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Shade
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If anything, musician. This is because, as many other people have said, standards are just giving your opponent VP's, and champions simply aren't worth the points to me. You can buy more RxBmen with the points you're saving.

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Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:55 am
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Normally I don't bother with any command, but all the command options are very cheap in the new book so I might consider it in the future.

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Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:04 am
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I would say take musican if you have 10 more. I was fighting my brother in law and he chareged with his Lord and fellbats on my 10 archers from the side and back and I would have defeated his lord that turn if I just had a musican he had 1 wound left after the combat resolution. That would have made most of his army crumble even sooner.


Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:49 pm
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In 6th edition, never included command on my rxbs, although I always gave them shields for greater survivability. I never thought the command options were cost effective for a unit whose primary duty was not close combat, especially for a unit of 10 who, command or no, would lose an break from close combat anyway.

Now, given that the champion is the same cost as a musician, I may slide one in now and again for the extra BS. The times before (6th ed) when I had done so with my shades, the extra BS was greatly appreciated, but never worth the equivalent of another shade.

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Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:04 pm
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Slave on the Altar

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IMO the Musician is a must-have, the champion is a maybe, and the standard is a definite no.

THe main benefit of the Musician for RxBs is the +1 to rally attempts. Given how often my RxB troops end up fleeing, a mere 5 points for an effective +1 Ld is an absolute bargain.

Champions, well the extra BS and attack is a nice bonus, but for the price of two champions (across two units, obviously) I could get an extra RxB, which I think is a better option. I take champions only when I'm filling points after having already chosen all the units I want.

Standards are just a no. RxBs aren't going to be particularly effective in CC even with a banner, so its effectively just gift VPs to the enemy.


Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:56 am
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The summary from Than is the same as mine - but for all maybe things no points are available.

Apart from the +1 LD for rally the muso comes also in play when holding your ground vs. fast troops.

In my opinion the comand for RxBs only comes to play when charged.
If your RxBs (read as support unit) gets charged you have to decide - is the charging unit too strong you flee and then the rallying on 9 is worth every point.
Or the charging unit is ok then you stand. In my experience from the old edition it was often the case that a lone hero on eagle or some light cav charged in. Normaly they do two or three wounds, the RxBs one . You get outnumber and a rank - a draw, which costs you the next shooting face.
With muso you will win and hopefully break the enemy. (here I am not sure whether this is still true with hatred, but definitly for round 2 of the HtH)


Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:42 am
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