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So I thought of another use for them: To give non-Khainites stubborn on ld9 with the cauldron nearby, because she herself is Khainite. She has the frenzy drawback, but her frenzy does make her unit immune to fear(p78 brb, fear/terror section, 1st paragraph, "...such units gain the same (fear/terror)immunities as the character..."). I think the non-cauldron Death Hag is only useful in armies that also include a cauldron Death Hag. But then she is quite useful, giving stubborn, immune to fear, probably she's the BSB, and probably she has the standard of Hag Graef. Plus 50pts gifts of Khaine. (And yes, I know there was a similar thread last month).

BSB of graef is best in exes witches and blacks. Two of them are khainite and the third is already stubborn

I'm thinking it will be a bit of a surprise in spearmen considering I usually take it with my black guard, who will only run a mundane standard. The Hag with standard of Hag Graef and rune of Khaine will make the spearmen with banner of murder a good combat unit. She is also a good bodyguard for the lvl2 with sacrificial dagger and pearl of infinite bleakness.

An almost unbeatable combination would be in a unit of corsairs (14) with sea serpent standard. Give them handbows and the Reaver a pair. Include a Death Hag and an Assassin.

Make the Death Hag BSB with ASF banner and Whichbrew. Give the assassin Rune of Kaine and touch of death.

You then have a unit that can march up the table (within the enemy charge range 8") unload 10 st3 bolts, get charged, unload another 10 bolts have the assassin do 6-8 poisoned KB attacks, the the Deathhag 5 poisoned attacks, then the corsairs 6 more attacks. Before your opponent gets a hit.

If you roll unlucky you're stubborn, imune the psychology, and enemy can't get bonus's for outnumber of flank or rear charges. And if by some chance you lose combat you get to re-roll break tests.

I also haven't included the +1 attack, 5+ ward save or KB blessing the unit can get from the Cauldron.

A pretty tough combination for a core unit I think, and it also has good protection 4+ save versus missle fire, and has the slaver's rule.

A bit expensive maybe, at about 519pt's but it is your BSB unit.

I liked the idea of taking the Death Hag in a non Khainite unit like Corsairs however the Master is generally going to perform just as well, has a better armour save and is slightly cheaper.

Elfik : that's an expenxive gaurd for a Level 2, might be better for a Level 4? Also, it seems like the whole unit is rather vulnerable to shooting. The Hag cannot take the Ring of Darkness to help with that, either. A Level 4 would have space in her allowance for it. In either case, it seems rather perilous to give your Sorceress, whatever her level, a Frenzied bodygaurd. You might find she gets pulled all around the board by skirmishers and Fastcav, failing charge after charge and never casting.

Of course, it wouldn't matter if she's just a caddy, but then the Hag seems insanely expensive as a caddygaurd, and we don't seem to need caddies that much anyhows, what with our Ring of Hotek and the number of Nulls we can field.

Thoughts?

Bounce : explain how, please.

Well maybe if the lvl4 had the familiar the unit could charge with the hag when forced to. But forget the bodyguard idea, I like the ASF, stubborn, spearmen with banner of murder and a blessing of Khaine. It's less obvious than execs, and less vulnerable to shooting due to numbers. Can be done with an assassin but then the spearmen attacks are not as effective, and no stubborn/fear immunity.

Plus the spearmen can hold combat for a couple rounds to get in transmutation of lead, or word of pain. And if things aren't looking good, then transfer the hag to different unit before frenzy commits you.

Elfik the Hag does not give immunity to fear for the unit, for one she loses immune to psychology as the unit doesn't have it and also for that part you mentioned for immunity, that only applies to characters that cause fear or terror.

wow i think that is a super idea never thought of it, you would want to make sure you can keep pressure on other fronts so the unit does not become a pincushion for enemy fire. thats the only drawback is the expensiveness that Ignotus pointed out even for such effectiveness

I was planning on using a of a unit of frenzied corsairs (do to magic banner) around 20-25)affected by the cauldron, with a bsb hag with the brew, other gifts optional, giving the unit first strike, and an assassin equiped as you like. The unit was supposed to receive charges form every thing!!! They could take out heavy cav and large units break in combat and chase them down thanks to slaver rule.

Oh you're right, she loses ItP, so forget that. No fear immunity, oh well.

I was planning on using a of a unit of frenzied corsairs (do to magic banner) around 20-25)affected by the cauldron, with a bsb hag with the brew, other gifts optional, giving the unit first strike, and an assassin equiped as you like. The unit was supposed to receive charges form every thing!!! They could take out heavy cav and large units break in combat and chase them down thanks to slaver rule.

Yes and on top of that the unit is stubborn(khainite Hag). So even being flanked, the unit will hold. The frenzy is a drawback though. So in a non-cauldron list, the master is probably better. Equip with just handweapon for handweapon +shield bonus, shield, sdc, and heavy armour, for 2+/1+ save.

Or you could always put the Hag with execs and won't need a cauldron boost, but it's very obvious and will still get shot. Maybe have two exec units beside the Hag's unit and move into one of them turn 2.

I must say i'm not a fan of frenzyed caracter in non-frenzied units.

It's so easy to be in charge range by a quarter of an inch or have an enemy unit you can't wheel to but your caracter can charge. Eagles, harpies and furies flying in front of your units can also cause your expensive hero to end up in the middle of nowhere, ready to be shot by the enemy next turn.

I HATE frenzy on caracter and even more on non frenzied units.