Master on a dark steed aka"The Lone Reaper"

[Duke daedric]

I got an interesting idea the other day.. "Why not field a lone hero on a dark steed with a *Cloak of Har Ganeth*" I said to meself..

On the first glance it doesn't seem powerful, however if ye consider that his Armour can go up to +1 vs anything except CC (+2 in CC) and halving STR of any damage he takes while not in CC. Also he has a daunting charge range of 18' and with hatred and lance that is quite a dmg potential.. (can give him Deathpiercer also - that KB might come in handy )..

Warmachines *bye bye
Lone characters *bye bye

He can support well and even suicide every once in awhile.
He is able to pick his charges, marchblock, even harass with XBOWpistols..
And can be annoying as HELL..

I didn't get the time to test it however, so I'm interested in any comments that you might make..

Any toughts..?

[Archdukechocula]

Dunno, massed shooting and anything that ignores armour saves are both still a pain. It's not a terrible combo, and it's decent for the price, but we have so many good options for dealing with war machines that it really calls into question why he is needed. You also mention lone characters, by which you probably mean lone mages, but again, our other units can take care of that issue. Personally, I would at least throw a null shard or the Ring of Hotek on the guy so that he could double as magic protection for your units. This would give him some versatility, and a role that doesn't overlap with harpies, shades and DR. Use his warmachine/character hunting when needed, otherwise, stick him in a unit or near an enemy mage to give a little MR.

[Dalamar]

It's a decent idea

I simply don't know what that single hero can do better than 3 units of harpies?

[Duke daedric]

I guess that 3 units of harpies would do better yes.
But I like the idea.

He is not exactly a "harpy wannabe" he is much more versatile and can be sacrificed if needed without any prolonged pain.. He is much more supportive, packs a punch and very hard to kill.

I agree that massed shooting can and prolly will kill it.. after all you would roll many dices and some of them would be "1" (since that is the only number on which your armor save fails if you have it that is). But I'm not concerned even if he is hit by a ballista he is wounded on a +4, which I cannot say for my COK..
So I'm very happy if my opponent Isn't shooting at anything else..

About the null talisman, 1 MR is goood indeed. However I think it is unnecesary since all dmg is halved in STR ('cept CC).. he can pretty much survive anything while not in CC..

Anybody else?

[Silverheimdall]

Organ Gun, average 6 autohits, average 3 wounds (half of S5 rounded up, so S3) and average all saved with 0+ against shooting.

12 Thunderers, average 8 hits, average 2-3 wounds (half of S4, so S2, wounds on 5s) and should be easily saved - though 1s will happen!

etc.

Its solid, it can survive a lot of shooting from anything except cannons.

[Grez90]

why the hell would any sane person shoot him, the thing that shouts out at me is rule of burning iron, or other magic...i would so much rather have 3 units of harpies, or even 2 units of dark riders.
other thing i'm thinking of is poisoned shooting, 10 skinks shooting him will dispose of him, even with your high save, just bypasses the strength modification.
also seeing as he is mounted, he no longer gets the single character shooting rule, so no modifier, meaning i'd be tempted to just have a pop with a bolt thrower seeing as its d3 wounds

[Whobetta]

bolt thrower i thought was only D3 when on a Monster...?!?!?!?

though against the skinks he still has a rediculous save. just don't roll any 1's

[Izirath]

The suggestion your are handing us Grez90 are quite situational, like all games. Sure he wouldn't be the best in a tournament. But when you know what you meet, he would do his duty. I think it's a cool build and surely I'll have to try it sometime, nice idea. Though as stated, he's a little situational.

[Releaser...]

I've been thinking of him as well.But,on a second thought:why not equip him with more offensive items to make him a more overall fighter?A standard defensive equipment and an enchated shield can give him a 0+ save versus shooting.The Cloak of Har Ganeth won't help against cannons anyway.The bigger difference is that you'll have to be more careful against bolt throwers (but they don't stand and shoot anyway).You can always field him with a unit and he can charge out of it alone.

[Murmandamus]

I recentlu used Master on Dark steed to some succes.

I give him hevy armour,lance, sea dragon cloack,pair of handbows, mount him on dark steed and equip him with pedant of khaleth and enchanted shield.

so what i get?
18''
charge range, a guy who can hunt for war mashines and light units
3 str 4/6 attacks with hatred and 1 with s3 also rerolable

1+sv from close combat/0+sv from ranged attack
and invert ward save who is almost immune to cannonbals, bolt throwers and simmilar nastienes.

I am considering upgraded version of him. Ie(dreadlord with regeneration and potion of str but perhaps it is a bit expensive.)

[Releaser...]

The Pendant is usually enough,try him with the potion and Caledor's Bane.Alternatively,you try him with Hydra Blade but it seems to be weaker.

[Milney]

The Pendant is usually enough,try him with the potion and Caledor's Bane.Alternatively,you try him with Hydra Blade but it seems to be weaker.

Or Heartseeker.

When used against small units and warmachines re-rollable (for both wounds and hits) S4 attacks are more than enough to hack his way clear, and then when he pops his Potion of Strength it will help considerably to avoid "Rubber Lance Syndrome"

[Archdukechocula]

About the null talisman, 1 MR is goood indeed. However I think it is unnecesary since all dmg is halved in STR ('cept CC).. he can pretty much survive anything while not in CC..

Anybody else?

Damage spells aren't the only thing you need to worry about. There are attribute test spells (pit of shades for example), phase affecting spells and spells that ignore armour saves. These all present a problem to the guy if he doesn't have some MR. For 15 points, that extra dispel dice can come in handy.

[Releaser...]

Or Heartseeker.

When used against small units and warmachines re-rollable (for both wounds and hits) S4 attacks are more than enough to hack his way clear, and then when he pops his Potion of Strength it will help considerably to avoid "Rubber Lance Syndrome"

Well,i find that weapon not worth the points because you want to mop the floor on turn one and you get rerolls to hit from hatred anyway.In other words,on turn one,half of the effect of the weapon is useless.Caledor's Bane will make him a hard hitter on subsequent rounds. (Releaser...'s disclaimer:i'm always referring to tournament lists.)

[Dangerous Beans]

Caledor's Bane will make him a hard hitter on subsequent rounds.

doesnt Caledors Bane only work in the 1st round of combat?

Heres some rough mathematical work: purely for attacking.

VS 3 ws4 t3 5+ armour'd warmachine crewman

Option #1:
Noble
Caledors Bane

3 attacks = 2 hits and hatred = 2.3333 hits
2+ to wound = 1.94444, wounds at -4 armour.

Option #2:
Master
Heartseeker

0.77777

3 attacks = 2.3333 hits
3+ to wound = 1.5555 wounds, re-roll failed wounds = an extra 0.5185 wounds, for a total of 2.07406 wounds.
Strength 4 hits means a 6+ armour save,
Total wounds = 1.72838 (after saves)

Thus the Caledors Bane option is better, however as Milney points out, rubber lance syndrome does happen to us all - we score all 3 hits and then failed to cause any wounds. Heartseeker does allow us to re-roll those failed wounds and save us from the scenario of losing the combat by 1 for being outnumbered (let alone allowing for the option of the crewman wounding our hero!)

I personally think that the Caledors Bane option is a better idea as you can chariot hunt with such a long charge range as well as seek out warmachine crews. He could punch into potentially very nasty targets as well in the form of enemy heavy cavalry units and/or steam tanks.
However I do see the Merits in taking Heartseeker: if the Master was to remain in the Dark Riders and charge enemy units then Id definitely go with this option - if he's doing lone hunting then Caledors Bane seems a better deal.

- Beanz

[Releaser...]

doesnt Caledors Bane only work in the 1st round of combat?

Yes but with S7 a master has more chances to wound a tougher crew and he can then charge something else.That's what i meant.

[Darkadon]

Dunno, massed shooting and anything that ignores armour saves are both still a pain. It's not a terrible combo, and it's decent for the price, but we have so many good options for dealing with war machines that it really calls into question why he is needed. You also mention lone characters, by which you probably mean lone mages, but again, our other units can take care of that issue. Personally, I would at least throw a null shard or the Ring of Hotek on the guy so that he could double as magic protection for your units. This would give him some versatility, and a role that doesn't overlap with harpies, shades and DR. Use his warmachine/character hunting when needed, otherwise, stick him in a unit or near an enemy mage to give a little MR.

Ring of Hotek on this guy is money in the bank. While we have harpies and DR that don't take a character slot and can do the job cheaper, this guy adds yet another threat for characters/machines AND provides magic protection for the other hunters in his vicinity, just as duke pointed out above.

[Duke daedric]

Well "The One ring" would give him versality he lacked. Indeed it makes him a "Pain in the backside".
Because of the ring he would most likely draw most of shooting ..
Cloak should do it's part in that case..

It yet remains to be tested tough..