Manticore BSB

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Loki
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Manticore BSB

Post by Loki »

I want to start a discussion of the viability of the Manticore BSB and the different builds you can use him for. My original thought was about using him to fly around and support my troops as needed, but I realized that, given the right equipment, he could be quite a hard hitter and even take ranked units on his own. I just wanted to discuss a bit the different magical banners that would help him out.

The Banner of Nagarythe- I think that the unbreakable would best be served on a unit that has a little more staying power, either through wounds or through armor. The manticore's lack of wounds and armor means that the BSB will be on the ground soon and pretty vulnerable. Also, the high points cost also seems a bit steep on something that is quite vunerable.

The Hydra Banner- You get one extra attack for the Manticore and the BSB. Still not that great of an option in my opinion. The extra attacks are much better suited in a unit where you get more attacks.

The Dread Banner- Pointless, the Manticore already causes Terror.

The Standard of Slaughter- In my opinion, the best choice for the BSB. This way, you can assure yourself at least a static CR of 2 and 4 at the most. A CR of 3 or 4 makes up pretty well when fighting a ranked unit. Add in a flank attack and you're looking up to 5 CR. Thats enough to completely cover the enemy's best static CR (Outnumber, 3 Ranks, Banner). Add in your kills and you're likely to break the unit on the charge, something a normal Manticore might have trouble doing. There are only 2 slight downsides to this. The first is that it is random and you might only get +1 to your combat resolution, though this is something you can deal with. The second is that it only works on the turn you charge. That means that if you roll bad for your attacks or your opponent gets a good leadership roll, then you're starting on your back foot

The Standard of Hag Graef- With the charge range of the manitcore and the high initiative of both the manticore and the master, I really don't see this being that useful.

The Sea Serpent Standard- Not available.

The Banner of Murder- With the manticore's killing blow and adding an additional -1 to armor saves, the BSB becomes a decent knight hunting unit. The Manticore has gets a -3 to armor saves and killing blow, along with the hatred, that really can put a hurting on a heavily armored unit. Probably ties for first place with the Standard of Slaughter, depending on what your plans are for the BSB and what the rest of your army looks like.

The Banner of Cold Blood- Could make sure that you stay in combat for an extra round, but the one use only makes it really not worth it.

The Warbanner- For those who like to play it safe. Its better than the Standard of Slaughter for those people who have bad luck. The second round help can be a lot of help, but it might not be enough to make it worth taking on the BSB. Taking a ranked unit will be much more difficult.

Well those are my thoughts. Let me know what you think about taking magic banners on a Manti-BSB, whether he should be given other magical equipment, or if the whole idea has any merit at all.
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Post by Azure »

I honestly think its better to tool him up with a RoH, and The magic Sea Dragon Cloak. That way he can still fight with his lance, take out smaller units AND won't die that early.

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Post by Layne »

I feel that in all cases except the Warbanner and the Banner of Slaughter or Murder, all are better used somewhere else.

Banner of Nagarythe - as said, 150 pts spent on keeping a 6 wound model in combat, rather extravagant. This banner is really best used for keeping very expensive, character heavy units from being run down.

Hydra Banner - also rather extravagant for 2 more attacks. Much better used elsewhere, especially on Cold One Knights.

Dread Banner - quite useless indeed, unless the Manticore should die. Even then, outrageously expensive for what it would achieve. Really a banner for large blocks.

Standard of Slaughter - expensive and fragile, to be sure, but it's the sort of thing that can give you a winning flank charge, and then another, and another. It can win games, if it survives. It really needs Harpies to back it up, and redirect any units that might charge it when it overruns.

Standard of Hag Graef - useful against other stuff with ASF - but then, so are Black Gaurd with this banner, and Witch Elves, Execs, etc. Better used elsewhere.

Banner of Murder - 5 points to give the Master AP, 25 points to give it to him and his cat. A slightly rum deal, but useful. But with the Banner, your Master can have a Lance or Halberd, then it looks a much better deal. This combo probably also needs some support units.

Banner of Cold Blood - Banner for scaredy-cats, so to speak. Better to be agressive.

Warbanner - if you charge in combination, or on the flank or rear, very nice cheap option. A poor man's Standard of Slaughter.
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Post by Entreri bloodletter »

Well I think it can also depend on the list you are running. I ran a Master BSB on Manticore in a monster heavy (Dragon, Manticore, 2 hydra, CoK, CoC) army and I believe I used the Ring of Hotek and Armor of Darkness. So depending on the list you may not even want to use a magic banner.

That setup worked pretty well as I supported the heavy hitters with the bubble of antimagic and manuevered into position turns 3 possibly four.

As for magic banners I would agree that the standard of slaughter and warbanner would be the best. Overall Standard of Slaughter I think is better because of the potential it offers. Ideally you want to break them on the charge and this standard offers the best chance to do so. Sometimes it isn't possible to break them on the charge but I like to maximise strengths so I would use this banner. The model gets significantly worse in subsequent rounds so I say go all out and go for the big win.
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Re: Manticore BSB

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Linda Lobsta Defenda wrote:dggrj is correct
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Post by Loki »

Dang you dggrj. I thought I saw something about this before, but I couldn't find it. My searchfu was weak. I apologize.
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Post by Calisson »

Loki17 wrote:Dang you dggrj. I thought I saw something about this before, but I couldn't find it. My searchfu was weak.

It was in the D.R.A.I.C.H. ToC as well.
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Post by Corum jhaelen irsei »

This is my setup:

Master (Manticore, BSB, Lance, Heavy armor, Shield, SDC, Seal of ghrond)

I have no wizards, so he helps with antimagic and also delivers a punch. He cannot handle a ranked unit though by himself, so I use him for hunting wizards, warmachines, fast cavalry and the occasional flank charge.
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Post by Druchii77 »

I really like the the BSB 'o Slaughter. I guess we can called him Sargeant Slaughter (nice G.I. Joe reference there for you older guys). You would have to be prudent with placement. Also, I see this guy not charging until turn 3-4 at the earliest. Maybe even waiting around until 5-6 for end game charges for sweeping some VP.
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