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Pasch thanks for posting the numbers, it's really interesting seeing the results. I am actually surprised at how well WE do against high T. I thought it would be good, but not quite that good.

I see the results against low T seem to be similar to the BG, one thing to bear in mind though is how much cheaper WE are and it appears they do comparable damage despite the point difference. In your example a unit of 5 BG with TM would be 79 points, while the WE with hag would be 60, basically allowing two more WE for the same price as the BG unit. Now there is no question who would do more damage, the BG dealing 11 while the WE deal 22.

Their champion can take magic items. Once again very big in my eyes because it lets you do things like stick a Ring of Hotek in the center of your line without taking up a master's item points.

Don't forget a hag can take a gift of khaine. I know that may not be as good as a magic item, but it can serve to enhance a WE unit well.

I will agree that BG are much less sensitive than WE, but played right WE can be most dangerous and clearly have one strong edge over BG with poison.

I play 2500pts. I like witch elves and black guard.

The witch elf unit I use tends to be 18 strong, with banner of murder and champ with manbane. Vs T4 opponents this character effectively gets +2S!

This unit costs all of 255pts, which I consier to not be that expensive. It also scares the opponent a lot because it can hide a brutal assassin (banner of murder is very useful on him also).

I also use the black guard unit (14 with asf and champ with crimson death), which is also not prohibitively expensive. Combine with a couple of spear blocks and thats quite a strong infantry army with lots of points to spare.

My remaining specials tend to be a cheap unit of COK, with 1 of COK, witch elves, and shades as the final choice.

Shooting probably does hurt but I usually face chaos, vamps and daemons! Its not like the army is short of screens and units to hurt shooters anyway.

Banner of Murder should be on the units standard for sure, but man 400 pts for that unit is a big gamble unless you can protect it. Moving the hag between that and Executioners where you can, seems pretty nice.

Statistically speaking against T3 opponants the Warbanner is better than the Banner of Murder. The single guaranteed CR is better than the AP. And against the same targets, Rune of Khaine is better than Manbane.

I've been thinking of this combo as well. It would fare very well against orcs, skaven and HE. The ability to have a champion with 5-7 attacks is pretty sweet! Also you're able to have another magic banner, and will start with a high CR. Vulnerable to missile fire however.

But it's just so fluffy! To see those crazy witches carve through rank and finle in a joyful frenzy

Witchbrew is an item that really comes in handy as well, making my witch elves that much more sweet. Almost arequirement for me.

I'd rather have +d3 attacks I like dead enemies and blood!
And it's just as likely that she will wound a model and get CR that way.
I don't intend to be flank charged, and outnumbering is still just one point.

My version of Witch elves of Doom:

Death hag bsb with Hydra banner and Rune of Khaine.
13 witch elves with musician.
Hag with Rune of khaine.

in the background Cauldron of Blood (who will supply the blessing "1+a")

This equals a unit that (with a little luck) unleash 43 poisoned attacks with re-roll in first round of combat.

and after the salamanders spend one round shooting at the Witch Elves the Hag is suddenly wondering why she's standing there alone...

phierlihy wrote:and after the salamanders spend one round shooting at the Witch Elves the Hag is suddenly wondering why she's standing there alone...

Chillwind is your friend

I used this unit over the weekend aganst high elves...it was a lawn mower. Pummeling unit after unit.

would rather take unit of corsairs with frenzy banner, hydra banner including an assassin with manbane and +d3 atacks backed by the cauldron. Assassin with 8-10 s6 attacks would be pretty awesome

Wouldn't an assassin with hydra banner and RoK and manbane, only have 5 to 7 attacks rolling to wound on 3's unless really high toughness? i would go hands down if it was 8 to 10, but 5 to 7 isn't too bad either, just more realistic. Unless there is something you guys are equipping your assassins with that i am missing out on.

OOOOhhhh, and now i notice the frenzy banner... that only accounts for 6 to 8 though, so i am still missing out on something tasty

I used this unit over the weekend aganst high elves...it was a lawn mower. Pummeling unit after unit.

Cool, what units were pummeled? I'm thinking of using Witch Elves with Assassin as well as BG with ASF banner in a Cauldron army. For redundancy and pts cost, this way seems decent, but the Hag BSB has the advantage of mobility. You could always move her to a unit of BG or executioners, and have an assassin in with some spearmen.

that only accounts for 6 to 8 though, so i am still missing out on something tasty

8 - 10, because 3 base, additional hand weapon, frenzy, hydra banner, Cauldron +1A, Rune of Khaine(+D3 Attacks).

Elfik wrote: Cool, what units were pummeled? I'm thinking of using Witch Elves with Assassin as well as BG with ASF banner in a Cauldron army. For redundancy and pts cost, this way seems decent, but the Hag BSB has the advantage of mobility. You could always move her to a unit of BG or executioners, and have an assassin in with some spearmen.

A great eagle who combo charged them with sword masters but the sword master charge fell short due to terrain. The Spearmen unit then a large unit of pheonix guard.

The idea of Witch elves having that manny attacks and banner of murder is cool.
Only downside is frenzy.
You can put a huge harpy unit, or a shade unit (with ring of ring of darkness) in front of the witch elfs so they are less dying from shooting.

Corsairs giving frenzy with a magic banner is good too, but you need a standard too do that.