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Different BSB Builds! Which one i superior!??
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Author:  Enfant terrible [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Different BSB Builds! Which one i superior!??

Following the discussion in quite a few threads I thought I'd get it out in the open: Which BSB build is the superior? Just to enlighten the few who haven't followed the ongoing discussion, this is a question following in the footsteps of Q's which arose during a Dalamar, D.A., et.al. thread on GT-army builds. Dalamar and others had good experiences with a BSB build that looked much like:

BSB, dark steed, ha, sdc, shield, pendant, Sword of Might.

Other variations include:
BSB, dark steed, ha, sdc, shield, pendant and soulrender.
BSB, dark steed, ha, sdc, shield, lance, pendant and enchanted shield.

The obvious difference being that one is more offensive while the other being defensive.

Which one do you use?

Author:  Waerik [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:13 am ]
Post subject: 

Neither, I prefer to use my BSB on foot, with AoD and a great weapon, and either gem of nightmares or RoH if I have spare points.

Quote:
BSB, dark steed, ha, sdc, shield, lance, pendant and enchanted shield.

This is however my favourite from the mounted ones, I am not a big fan of greatewpons when mounted.

Another BSB I like is the following: Master, BSB, Standard of slaughter, HA, SDC, Halberd, riding in a chariot.

That gives you a rank breaking chariot with 2-4 static CR on the charge.

I am not to keen on the cauldron BSB's that some people are running though, the extra CR from the BSB makes a huge difference.

All in all, I would never take a 2k army without a BSB, they simply are that good IMO.

Author:  Dalamar [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:16 am ]
Post subject: 

The Sword of Might / Soulrender BSB has one big advantage over Enchanted shield one

He rips wraith units another one.
While Enchanted Shield can only tarpit them.

Author:  Marauder mitch2 [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:18 am ]
Post subject: 

Thats why i was looking at the Sword of Might. But itr depends on the rest of the army as in a magic heavy army the MW might not be needed but in a magic light it will be.

Author:  Lamekh [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:59 am ]
Post subject: 

How about:
Master - BSB, Dark Steed, Armour of Darkness, Crimson Death

(when Pendant, ES are in use elsewhere)

Author:  Slortor [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:06 am ]
Post subject: 

much less reliable for taking on wraiths, GD's etc which is what that BSB build is designed for....

Author:  Enfant terrible [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:19 am ]
Post subject: 

Dalamar wrote:
The Sword of Might / Soulrender BSB has one big advantage over Enchanted shield one

He rips wraith units another one.
While Enchanted Shield can only tarpit them.


That was my reasoning as well, but then I thought it might just be my current metagaming that had made me paranoid!!

Author:  Cervix [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:29 am ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
How about:
Master - BSB, Dark Steed, Armour of Darkness, Crimson Death


This won't work imo. The pendant is mandatory.

IIRC Dalamar used the Pendant BSB to pin large monsters for a few turns. e.g. Greater Deamon.

Due to the pendant your BSB has a good chance it won't get any wounds. With AoD against a Greater Deamon however...

Author:  Enfant terrible [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:39 am ]
Post subject: 

Right ... if you change the build from Pendant + x, then you might have a good BSB, but you won't have anything like the tarpit that Dalamar introduced ...

Author:  Enfant terrible [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:55 am ]
Post subject: 

Layne actually made clear in another thread that the SOULRENDER combo denies the BSB the right to use a shield in CC as it is a great weapon ... dooh...

Author:  Lamekh [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:01 pm ]
Post subject: 

Cervix wrote:
This won't work imo. The pendant is mandatory.

IIRC Dalamar used the Pendant BSB to pin large monsters for a few turns. e.g. Greater Deamon.

Due to the pendant your BSB has a good chance it won't get any wounds. With AoD against a Greater Deamon however...


Tought so, thanks

Author:  Dark Alliance [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:50 pm ]
Post subject: 

Dalamar was struggling with his character combo until I told him to use that BSB combo. Benji and Ben Johnson had been using it with great success in 2250pt armies, which is where I stole the idea from.

He is great but he is not an all-rounder. IMO you have to decide when you write your list whether you want extreme survivability (which is how the Bens run him), or whether you want to forgo the maximum save in exchange for stronger hitting power (which is the way I use him).

The two Bens go for the save because their lists are magic/shooting heavy, fast moving, take you apart from a distance builds and so their combo is perfect for pinning things.

My lists are more of a mixed arms build where I have additional combat units so I like to use my BSB to inflict more kills.

Try to use the wrong BSB build in your list and you can run into problems.

Author:  Enfant terrible [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:07 pm ]
Post subject: 

Dark Alliance wrote:
Dalamar was struggling with his character combo until I told him to use that BSB combo. Benji and Ben Johnson had been using it with great success in 2250pt armies, which is where I stole the idea from.

He is great but he is not an all-rounder. IMO you have to decide when you write your list whether you want extreme survivability (which is how the Bens run him), or whether you want to forgo the maximum save in exchange for stronger hitting power (which is the way I use him).

The two Bens go for the save because their lists are magic/shooting heavy, fast moving, take you apart from a distance builds and so their combo is perfect for pinning things.

My lists are more of a mixed arms build where I have additional combat units so I like to use my BSB to inflict more kills.

Try to use the wrong BSB build in your list and you can run into problems.


Sorry ... I credited the wrong person then ... great insight - thx.

Author:  Dalamar [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

Hehe, no worries, I wouldn't take credit for it anyway ;)

I *can* take credit for 5+ units of harpies army list though :D

Author:  Dark Alliance [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:38 pm ]
Post subject: 

Indeed you can. Now as for it's longevity though....

Author:  Marauder mitch2 [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:03 pm ]
Post subject: 

lol, i can taske credit of the DE Dragon mage. I like the blade of might but it feels a bit meh and in between. I think all 3 options need play testing to find what is best for your set up.

Author:  Haf [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:26 pm ]
Post subject: 

Im using this for my bsb now:

On foot with soulrender, with pendant, ha, sdc. His main task is to hold hard things like dragon, etc in challenge, slowly beating them down.

He holds his banner and shouts on enemies: "Hey, maggots, try to kill me..." and after they try it, he smiles: "...you see, it is not so easy, isnt it? And now, take my answer!

Author:  Dark Alliance [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

Do you have him in a unit? If so how do you get him into combat, what else is in your list?

Author:  Haf [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:41 pm ]
Post subject: 

[url]http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=59203
[/url]
I have him in a spearelves unit. His task there is to help to common elven infantry hold or win their fight.[url][/url]

Author:  Enfant terrible [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:50 pm ]
Post subject: 

HaF wrote:
[url]http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=59203
[/url]
I have him in a spearelves unit. His task there is to help to common elven infantry hold or win their fight.[url][/url]


But isn't he pretty slow?? Or to put it in another way - by having him on a dark steed he has a charge range of 18", on foot it's 10" - so why do your field him on foot? And his save is worse ...

Author:  Marauder mitch2 [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:58 pm ]
Post subject: 

The dark steed is the no brainer build. It is soo vicious and it is rude not to take on.

Author:  Haf [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:19 pm ]
Post subject: 

He is on foot because he has soulrender. He will get +2S and not +1 only. And, he is in infantry list. His main and the only task is support infantry. Not something else. And, his steed is very expensive and all my points fits exatly.

Author:  Dark Alliance [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:07 am ]
Post subject: 

How on earth do you get him in combat with a dragon? Surely your opponents are not daft enough to charge a ranked spear unit?

Author:  Dalamar [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:04 am ]
Post subject: 

From the front no less! since from the side that unit would crumble before the BSB got into position to issue a challenge.

Author:  Kargan daemonclaw [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:39 am ]
Post subject: 

How does a BSB build go against a treeman ancient with annoyance?

If you charge, the BSB has to survive the terror test. Then survive the strangleroot S&S

Assuming both sides do no wounds does the BSB CR cancel out the outnumbering of the Treeman or monster?

Against any monster you better not ever get wounded or it's all over and you are down to needing double 1s to stand.

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