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To start, this isn't a topic on if the Pendant is fair but rather on how to use it.

Granted, the pendant is without a doubt our best defensive magic item. At the same time, I think people are just slapping it on their characters just because it's good.

In fact, I feel the pendant is quickly becoming a psychological crutch for people worried that their general will die, then an actually effective and economical use of points. The pendant is an excellent defensive magic item, but often there are a lot of cheaper, and better alternatives that work better.

For starters, the dread lord.

Odds are if your dreadlord is taking all his normal armor upgrades he already has a +1 save. Unless you want him to be fighting a bloodthirster or vampire lord (which he'll likely lose even with the pendant) the +1 save is good enough. In fact, the following things would likely work way better for most dreadlords thinking about taking the pendant

- 2 Null Talismans are less points AND puts a serious monkey wrench into your opponents magic phase.

- A potion of strength will do wonders to your combat phase and is, again, less points.

- The Seal of Ghrond, again less points and a dent in your opponents magic phase.

- Upgrade other characters. The points for the pendant can easily fund an extra sword of str for a unit champion or another banner for another unit. It's better to make your units more effective then worry about your character dying.

Again, even things like battle standards don't need the pendant. While we all want our battle standards to live, the armor of darkness effectively gives a +1 save AND you then save the points for all the armor upgrades AND you can take another magic item on the bsb whereas the pendant would have locked out a lot of other combos.

And Supreme Sorceress, while it's tempting to give them one, consider that there are cheaper and more effective ways to keep them out of combat which will benefit you a lot. Both the focus familiar and the dark pegasus are cheaper then the blasted pendant, and both will make your supreme sorceress way more powerful.

What the pendant really should be used for is characters that are going to see a lot of attacks at them, like guys mounted on dragons/maniticores. With as much artillery and other stuff pouring at them, that's where a pendant will come really in handy. That or super combat characters that you really want to fight things like the Vampire Lord. It's a brave thing to do and with the pendant, it is possible to fight the Vampire Lord, but unless you have your heart set on it, it's better to keep your dreadlord and other characters to support your troops and not go about challenging Chaos Lords to combat.

What I'm trying to say is Don't worry about beating an enemy general in a fight, instead care about defeating his army

Anyways that's it, please feel free to comment.

Again, even things like battle standards don't need the pendant. While we all want our battle standards to live, the armor of darkness effectively gives a +1 save AND you then save the points for all the armor upgrades AND you can take another magic item on the bsb whereas the pendant would have locked out a lot of other combos.

Actually there is a topic right now about BSB and the pendant. You should read it.

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=59233

What I'm trying to say is Don't worry about beating an enemy general in a fight, instead care about defeating his army

And that is exactly the point with the BSB pendant combo. You don't want to beat the big scary monster you just want to pin him. And so make it easier for the rest of your army too defeat the rest of your opponents army.

I think the lead post raises some good points, and anything that encourages players to look more closely at what and why they spend their army points on gets the thumbs up from me.

What I don't think is quite valid though is how you compare the points spent on the pendant to pints spent on Null Talismans and the Seal of Ghrond. This is like comparing chalk and cheese as they are affecting different phases of the game.

The pendant, as with any other element of your list, has to be chosen because it compliments what you are trying to achieve with your list.

What I don't think is quite valid though is how you compare the points spent on the pendant to pints spent on Null Talismans and the Seal of Ghrond. This is like comparing chalk and cheese as they are affecting different phases of the game.

Yes but i think what he is saying is that there are better things and combos you can do instead of using the Pendent, while saving a few points.

It's better to think of more strategy when doing a list and if your not doing that then your screwed from the start.

I can't disagree more on the sorceress. If you are taking a supreme sorceress, (and assuming she is not on a dragon), the pendant is almost mandatory for surviving harsh miscasts. No other item so cheaply protects her from the effects of a miscast.

The focus familiar is only really all that great when she's riding a dragon, in which case you want to be in combat, *and* able to cast spells.

Shadoer wrote:I think people are just slapping it on their characters just because it's good.

I agree with your sentiments. But there is nothing wrong with people slapping it on their characters just because it's good. Believe it or not but mostly everyone around here know the capabilities of the Pendant of Kaeleth.

The PoK on the Supreme Sorceress I find a bit weird however. I only use the PoK for melee characters, so you'll rarely see a PoK on my sorceress. I usually run armies which have decent magic in it so I'm fairly experienced when it comes to magic heavy armies.

With a Supreme Sorceress, you don't need a PoK because your Supreme Sorceress shouldn't even be in combat (on a dragon that's a slightly different matter), the Supreme Sorceress can easily dish out the punishment while taking little in return. PoD will be your main spell and if you're smart you can spread out your large amount of PD amongst your spells. So no need for a PoK.

A Supreme Sorceress should have items as follows:

I usually run this build

(Sometimes) Sacrificial Dagger
Darkstar Cloak
Tome of Furion
Focus Familiar

You can hide behind a building, terrain, in forests and with your Focus Familiar, you have a cheap and easy way of defending your Supreme Sorceress instead of taking the PoK (you can now give the PoK to another character if you wish).

EDIT: Forgot to mention that my Supreme Sorceress is usually on a Dark Pegasus or Dark Steed.

You can't have the tome and the focus familiar together because they are both arcane items...

In fact forget what I just said, re-reading what you wrote, what are you actually saying you run all those items together? Or you choose one of them at a time?

They're are the usual list of items I choose from (I've left one or two items out). I thought I wrote this in my post, my bad. I was typing quickly and forget to include this explanation in my EDIT. <yawn>

Pendant is THE best magic item in the game. But sometimes it is over kill especiallly on the dreadlord on a dragon. it is a very good article but with the lists synergy you have to make sure the pendant wearer is safe. Dragon mage yes but other sorceresses depends on the build of your army.

The thing about the PoK is that it combines too well with armour. It seems to have been meant to protect sorc from miscasts, but now spends its days defending melee characters with a high armour save.

PoK plus a 1+ save is stupidly good, i'd like to see it drop to 30 points but not be allowed in combination with armour, and the Black amulet drop to 60 points so you have some points left to buy other goodies for your lord.

shadoer wrote:For starters, the dread lord.

Odds are if your dreadlord is taking all his normal armor upgrades he already has a +1 save. Unless you want him to be fighting a bloodthirster or vampire lord (which he'll likely lose even with the pendant) the +1 save is good enough. In fact, the following things would likely work way better for most dreadlords thinking about taking the pendant

- 2 Null Talismans are less points AND puts a serious monkey wrench into your opponents magic phase.

- A potion of strength will do wonders to your combat phase and is, again, less points.

- The Seal of Ghrond, again less points and a dent in your opponents magic phase.

Your argument seems a little flawed here. A pendant on a dreadlord (or master) means a vampire lord almost certainly won't beat him. With vampire s5, only 1/6th of his attacks will penetrate your ward save each turn, and since he only has 4 attacks... well let's say the maths stack up well in your favour.

Also, the null talismans are fairly worthless vs VC since they rarely cast magic at enemies these days, preferring to buff their own units instead.
Similarly, the seal of ghrond only gives a single extra dispel dice, but since VC often cast with 1d6+1 (skull staff on the lord, of course), you will need to be dispelling on a dice more than them to shut down a spell.
Lastly, the potion of strength. Useful vs VC to autobreak black coaches but not really great otherwise, and it can be taken on the dreadlord with the pendant and dreadlance for a good all-round combat character, so it's not competeing with the pendant but rather complimenting it.

Similarly for the bloodthirster, the pendant is the best choice since without it, your lord will mostly die and surrender full wounds plus the bonus 5 CR. With it, he may still die but will likely cause the BT to still lose combat due to the CR of his unit or similar and it's not guaranteed he will even die. I have held up skulltaker for 4 combat phases with a pendant master before.

I'm not saying it is a musthave item. But it is certainly the best item in the 2 scenarios you listed above.