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How to kill a Bloodthirster? 
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Warrior

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:57 am
Posts: 60
Location: Perth, WA
So there is a tournament coming up soon, and im fairly certain one of the players will be bringing a Bloodthirster. Im not entirely sure what setup it will be, but I think it will have MR3 and Killing Blow - he isnt keen on running a flaming BT due to possibilty of facing the local Star Dragons.

So how do you guys deal with BT's? Im struggling to think of ways - I only run one RBT so that wont get it done. I have 6 levels of magic, but the MR3 will go a long way to nullifying that. And my small arms fire probably wont get it done either.

Any tips?


Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:59 am
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Generalissimo
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Two cheese and totally over the top answers would be:

Black dragon with Dreadlord of uber save (e.g. full mundane armour, armour of servitude and pendant and Deathpierce/Crimson Death)?

Executioners with tullaris, BSB with SHG, Dreadlord with executioner's axe, tooled up assassin and supporting cauldron?

But there are probably a lot of better answers out there ;)

(btw, I thought BTs were MR2?)


Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:58 am
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Warrior

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Im not sure on the BT's MR - I remember reading somewhere it was three, but maybe thats with a gift or magic item? Hopefully im wrong, MR2 would be a lot easier to deal with.

I like the suggestions, but I dont own a Dragon or any Executioners. This is roughly the list I will be running, though I may make a few small changes - tournament is still a month away or so.

Supreme Sorceress w/ Dark Pegasus, lvl 4 upgrade, Lifetaker, Focus Familiar, Pendant of Khaeleth - 400
Master w/ Cold One , Lance, Heavy Armour, Shield, BSB - 135
Sorceress w/ lvl 2 upgrade, Dispel Scroll, Tome of Furion - 175

19 Spearmen w/ Shields, Standard, Musician - 142*
* Assassin w/ Extra Hand Weapon , Rune of Khaine, Touch of Death, Cloak of Twilight - 171
10 Repeater Crossbowmen w/ Shields - 110
5 Dark Riders w/ Repeater Crossbows (25), Musician - 117
5 Dark Riders w/ Repeater Crossbows (25), Musician - 117
5 Harpies - 55

14 Black Guard w/ Full Command, Standard of Hag Graef, Null Talisman - 267
5 Cold One Knights w/ Full Command - 175
6 Shades w/ Great Weapons - 108

War Hydra - 175
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 100

Nothing really jumps out at me as a good option...

Rork edit: Please don't put in individual points costs!


Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:23 am
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Brush Master
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You can kill BT by made couple changes in this roster:

-RBT: two is enough to hold him behind forest if You put them right
-Assasin or two with manbane and rending stars are great for this bastards
-give pedant on bsb put him in COK, take shadow magic and try tu cast unseen lurker to charge him and chalenge him.
-take lord on foot with executioners axe+blood armor/pedant+mask of terror+magic GW with AP and 3x2lv sorceres with shadow magic and teleport him

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Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:41 am
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Generalissimo
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A few more high-risk ideas...


Quote:
14 Black Guard (182) w/ Full Command (35), Standard of Hag Graef (35), Null Talisman (15) - 267


Add crimson death for 3xS6 attacks

Quote:
Assassin (90) w/ Extra Hand Weapon (6), Rune of Khaine (25), Touch of Death (30), Cloak of Twilight (20) - 171


Go with the venom blade (or whatever its name is) instead? You would have to get very very lucky though...

Quote:
Supreme Sorceress (225) w/ Dark Pegasus (50), lvl 4 upgrade (35), Lifetaker (30), Focus Familiar (25), Pendant of Khaeleth (35) - 400


Put her on foot and give her black staff or sacrificial dagger and a couple of powerstones - with enough power dice you could swamp his dispelling ability and land some nasty spells...


Or finally, take 40 RxBs and put them on a hill :P

80 repeating shots
Hitting on 4s (BS4, -1 for repeating, -1 for long range = 5s, +1 for large target = 4s) = 40 hits
40 hits, wounding on 6s (S3 vs T6) = 6.667
6.667 wounds, saving on 6s (base save of 5 and -1 for AP) = 5.556 wounds
5.556 wounds, ward saving on 5s = 3.7 wounds

Two rounds = dead Bloodthirster :P

All super cheese though :P


Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:02 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Make the assassin a rending star assassin and try Dark magic as you kill the rest of the army and get a win. Doombolt is good against him.

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Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:02 pm
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Warrior

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Karth wrote:
You can kill BT by made couple changes in this roster:

-RBT: two is enough to hold him behind forest if You put them right
-Assasin or two with manbane and rending stars are great for this bastards
-give pedant on bsb put him in COK, take shadow magic and try tu cast unseen lurker to charge him and chalenge him.
-take lord on foot with executioners axe+blood armor/pedant+mask of terror+magic GW with AP and 3x2lv sorceres with shadow magic and teleport him


I think the Pendant BSB and Assassin changes are ones ill make. The Sorceress will have to be a bit more careful, but thats fine. The COK's are a juicy target, so I should be able to trap him when he charges.

Ive run the RS/Manbane Assassin before, but he didnt do too much for me. Last tournament my KB Assassin killed a Lvl4 High Elf mage (with the book of hoeth to boot), a Pendant DE Lordand heaps of support units. Those extra attacks (from RoK) really come in handy against small fry. Is it worth changing this (successful) build for a more specialised one?


Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:14 pm
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Hi rezz

Ill give you a honest answer.

To kill all the possible endless combinations a Blood thirster can have you take the following.

2 or if you really like to be sure 3 or more Bolt throwers.
I was once in the same position like you, some one advised me to take bolt throwers. I took 4 and shot his whole army including the blood thirster to pieces.


Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:33 pm
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The main problem with killing a Bloodthirster through CC is that he can fly and so will just avoid all your tough tarpit units.

Magicking him to death is tricky due to the MR 3. SO I would go for just shooting him.
4 Bolt Throwers, 30 RXB Warriors, 10 Dark Riders and two units of Shades should get rid of him fairly quick. :)

Another option if you want a bit of fun, Take a Dreadlord on Darksteed with the Black Amulet and Crimson Death. Then if you get the opportunity charge in take off a wound hopefully and then half his attacks should bounce back to almost kill him.

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Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:40 pm
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Most BT I have seen have obsidian armour and thus neutralize any magic weapon used against them in CC, thus making it extremely difficult to cause wounds. SCR works well, especially with a PoK dreadlord in a block of spears with a warbanner. Eventually the BT will fail instability and melt.


Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:54 pm
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The manbane rending stars combo is great if you can get in range. I found that giving him the cloak of twilight helps him keep near the BT, but only for one round, as your opponent will start saving dispel dice for it. The ONE time I successfully killed my friend's BT I took off a few wounds with the rending star assassin, a few with the bolthrowers, and finished him off when it charged my ASF Execs and challenged me. He expected to murder my champ, but instead I took the challenge with the death hag bsb. RoK and Manbane made her JUST cause enough wounds to kill him. Morale of the story? Don't count on ONE solution to kill it, have a few units who can contribute. SCR is a great way to deliver the killing blow.

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Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:27 pm
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I just like to keep lots of mobile Xbows in my army (3 5 man units of DR and at least two units of shades) With the range and the Large Target bonus, you can normally ensure that just about anywhere on the table you can reliably throw 40+ shots at him. I know, it's all str 3, but it is AP, so you'll prolly do a wound or two from 40+ shots. Remember, GDs outside of the GUCO only have 5 wounds, so losing 2 wounds to a hail of small arms fire means that they're only one nice bolt thrower shot away from death.

So yeah, I suppose my answer would be to shoot it.


Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:23 pm
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Assassins with manbane in every unit, 2 bolt throwers, lots of small rxb units.

It's death of a thousand cuts for the BT. The only other choice he has is to charge the unit of BG with the strikes first banner and highborn with great weapon and pendant.

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Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:57 am
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Is it worth focusing the whole armies shooting onto the Thirster though? With Juggers, Flamers, and any fast Slaanesh stuff on the table, focussing solely on the BT could lead to a quick demise. Is it possible to ignore the BT and focus on killing the rest of the army? Or is he just too much of a killing machine to ignore?


Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:40 am
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Cold One Knight

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Bolt Thrower's, Rxbows will all get +1 to hit.

If you put three wounds on him he will usually try to hide.

Think ahead to where he will end up after combat.

If he ends up out in the open you can probably shoot him with lots of stuff.

Shades and Dark Riders are really good for this due to their mobility.

RS manbane assassin is excellent.

No you don't have to tailor your army all these things will be in most DE armies.

Except maybe the RS manbane assassin.

Happy hunting!


Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:43 am
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I would keep army the same if it works for youexcept change out the assassin for Maimbane. It's a small price to pay, will still help in your other games, and is an easy way to put 2 wounds on the BT. Give him the cloak and for that opponent use shadow magic as well.

It's a mistake to tool your whole list for one character.


Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:19 pm
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I am a big fan of killing the guy from a distance. So I would personally tool the assassin to have stars and manbane. Combined with magic and two RBT, he should be toast quickly.

Although I prefer this, I have only ever killed a BT through combat res provided by challenging with a pendant BSB and black guard. That has always been how it turns out for me.

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Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:22 am
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Malekith's Personal Guard
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If your desperate you could challenge with the champion of a fully ranked up unit of spears. He will lose the first round to your SCR and may poof. If not then you can hope you keep him stuck for a bit.

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Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:02 pm
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He wont poof. He get massive overkill bonuses from the challenge and you "only" have SCR 5.. Plus, the turn after the challenge, your spearmen break.

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Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:33 pm
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Cold One Knight

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Yeah, with the overkill bonus, he will probably still win the combat by one, if he is unlucky, then loose it by one. Then however, your poor spearmen are facing a very p**sed off greater daemon!

My advice would be to shoot the hell out of it! Bolt throwers will make any large target sweat and even RXB in sufficient numbers will cause wounds on it. Shoot it, shoot it some more, then when it is bleeding and dying, shoot it some more! Thats how i normally deal with the buggers. Remember that even if your shooters are behind your lines they can still see the ugly monstroisty due to it being a large target!

If you dont want to shoot it and have, for some reason, a suicidal urge to meet possibly one of the most dangerous creatures in existance in close quarter combat then better start praying to khaine!

Executioners axe's, manbane loaded assassins and even Crone Hellbron can cause the daemon major trouble up close and personnel. The only problem is if it has the armour that negates any magical weapons (cant remember what!) then you have trouble.

My last and possibly most risky strategy is a Lord or Master with a lance, with a unit of Cold One Knights with the BSB with the Hydra banner. A lot of str 6 attacks IF and only IF you get the charge. It can work, cos i have done it before, but then you must use this unit to destory more units otherwise its a point sink.

Anyway, just my idea's, im no daemon expert, i just take 4+ Reapers in most battles due to the fact that Dragons, giants and pretty much anything bigger than an ogre scares me!

Regards

D


Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:45 pm
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Assuming the Bloodthirster is going to wear Obsidian Armour (which they all do) the Executioners Axe won't work. A beefed up unit of Cold One Knights won't work because he'll challenge someone and beat that someone into the dirt. Shooting it is about the only thing I can thnk of. And Gods forbid he brings two of them...


Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:38 pm
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phierlihy wrote:
A beefed up unit of Cold One Knights won't work because he'll challenge someone and beat that someone into the dirt.


Just make the unit challenge avoiding. No champion and no character. No way to hide in challenge.

Though I agree with the others. Shooting is best if you have to take it down.

Otherwise use delaying, avoidance tactics to hinder the beastie. Set up traps, know the flight move distance and figure out where he can land it and move accordingly, and always have faith that he can pooch some rolls and you can win a lucky combat with meager spearmen.

Cheers.


Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:46 pm
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My post may have been ambiguous. The assassin I recommend has manbane, throwing stars, and the cloak. Your caster's take shadow. This gives you access to lurker to potentially charge the BT with an uberunit which he would otherwise avoid by choosing better prey (being a flyer). More importantly it gives you steed to go with the cloak to give you more chances to fly the assassin into position to safley chuck stars at the BT and to move other characters accordingly to avoid the BT making lots of points. A few rounds of maiming stars plus other incidental shooting will make the BT a lot less scary.

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Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:41 am
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It takes Champions/Characters to make Cold One Knights tough. And any Bloodthirster who doesn't finish his turn in combat with one of our units that doesn't have a character in it is just silly.

If you can keep an Assassin within missile range of a Bloodthirster for more than one round of shooting, I'd be impressed!


Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:58 am
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It is NOT a good idea to ignore a Bloodthirster. He is a pure powerhouse, easily able to bring in about 800 VP or more if left unattended!

The best way is of course to keep him out of combat, but that isn't very likely to happen...
So, you main focus should be to keep him in ONE combat for as long as possible. The longer you can hold him, the better chance you have to flank and kill him with SCR.
Champions are great for this sience they let you keep your (often small) flanking unit.

I've played a few games with a Bloodthirster vs WoC. He ended up in a combat vs 15 chaos warriors and with 5 knights in the flank after a failed charge. When the combat was over, the BT had taken 2 wounds, killed all the knights and ran down the warriors. All beacuse of the lack of a champion. Otherwise, I would have lost that combat.
That was a good opportunity for the WoC player. Two really combat-heavy units in good position vs the BT. But they had nothing that could soak up the damage and therefor lost too much CR.

So make sure you have those champions or Pedant-characters!
I just wanted to point that out, how important it is!

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Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:29 pm
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