New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Daeron
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Daeron »

Ming wrote:ASF and murderous prowess seem to benefit Exes the most.
As espected......
Now they just need 2A profile (just like SM have) to become the most broken unit in the game!


Two pointers here.
- Swordmasters still don't see the tournament scene as often as Lions or Phoenix by my observation. My observation is limited, granted, but I think it points out that 2A isn't always the game winner.

- ASF and Murderous Prowess..Interesting combo for exe's right? But this might ramp up their cost considerably. And I noticed there's the signature spell that gives +1 strength.... I wouldn't be surprised they'd drop back to S3 to compensate, meaning that they are powerful thanks to the ASF and murderous prowess, but they'll be forced to synergize with the Dark Magic to be superb. This is just a wild guess... But personally I think it's unlikely we'll see a "signature spell" give infantry S7 so easily. Especially in a DE army. Unless there is a considerable cost.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by leesmith »

doest seem to be an image for the scourge runner yet?. or have I missed it?
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by xFallenx »

Nothing yet. Suspect it'll be part of wave 2.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Falstaff »

Hi guys!

I have just seen new picks of the first releases. They show TWO different kinds of witch elves, CoB/altar, Kraken/Hydra.

Maybe the witch elve/multikit box everyone has been talking about is a kit that lets you build two different kinds of witches.

maybe there'll be core witches and special witches ... oh dear Lord!
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by xFallenx »

Looks like a Rare type female unit. Sisters of Slaughter I believe they are called. The CoB is indeed a duel kit, the other iteration is called Bloodwrack Shrine.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by leesmith »

hmm what seems to be missing though for a second wave?
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by xFallenx »

Exec's/BG, Chariots, Dark Riders....I'm certain I'm missing something else.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Trax »

Daeron wrote:
Ming wrote:But personally I think it's unlikely we'll see a "signature spell" give infantry S7 so easily. Especially in a DE army. Unless there is a considerable cost.


What do you mean by "especially in a DE army". If we had the old Cauldron with +1A and maybe the Hydra Banner, I'd get it, but there's no way to know if that's still the case, we may as well return to "normal attack numbers", so S7 wouldn't even be that big of a deal - what's out there Execs would kill with S7 but not with S6?

Besides, I really don't like the signature spell. It's practically useless on a non-supreme Sorc and even then, PoD used to be great because you could throw two dice at it and it would be a win-win situation mostly. 1/3 chance to gain nothing, tiny chance of miscast/concentration fail, if the enemy bans it, well, he's welcome. I've got even more PoD on my other sorc(s).

With the dagger and a single PD it was borderline broken, granted, but how many dice am I to throw at the new Sig Spell? For a Supreme Sorc one would be enough for a 3+, but you can't start your magic phase with that. And if you use it as last spell in your turn, you've still got a good chance at removing one of her precious wounds on your own. I'm miscasting often enough as is, I don't need my sig spells to shave off even more wounds.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by leesmith »

thanks fallen :) im so going to be skint.......................................
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Clockwork »

Trax wrote:
Daeron wrote:
Ming wrote:But personally I think it's unlikely we'll see a "signature spell" give infantry S7 so easily. Especially in a DE army. Unless there is a considerable cost.


What do you mean by "especially in a DE army". If we had the old Cauldron with +1A and maybe the Hydra Banner, I'd get it, but there's no way to know if that's still the case, we may as well return to "normal attack numbers", so S7 wouldn't even be that big of a deal - what's out there Execs would kill with S7 but not with S6?

Besides, I really don't like the signature spell. It's practically useless on a non-supreme Sorc and even then, PoD used to be great because you could throw two dice at it and it would be a win-win situation mostly. 1/3 chance to gain nothing, tiny chance of miscast/concentration fail, if the enemy bans it, well, he's welcome. I've got even more PoD on my other sorc(s).

With the dagger and a single PD it was borderline broken, granted, but how many dice am I to throw at the new Sig Spell? For a Supreme Sorc one would be enough for a 3+, but you can't start your magic phase with that. And if you use it as last spell in your turn, you've still got a good chance at removing one of her precious wounds on your own. I'm miscasting often enough as is, I don't need my sig spells to shave off even more wounds.


I disagree. Firstly, you need to completely forget the horrible broken combinations of the current book. Those things are gone.

Any Strength is incredibly important to both wounding, and making sure those wounds count by penetrating army. From someone who uses Spears a lot, S4 Spear horde will be much more viable. S5 Blackguard is huge; as is S6 Chariot impact hits. S7 Cold One Knights, backed up with S5 Cold Ones (if it works on mounts as well - I sure hope so!), will punch through all that 1+ armour everyone seems to be bringing these days much more reliably than S6.

But more importantly, don't just treat +1 S in isolation. Stack it up with army-wide ASF and re-roll 1s to wound, and it just gets better. Don't forget that in the Lizardmen book, Cold Ones got two attacks. If they carry over to the Dark Elf Cold Ones as well, and if they benefit from the +1 S...

Is the power dice generation a secondary effect or its own signature spell? If the first its icing on the cake; if the second its still solid. There are very few ways of reliably generating additional magic dice any more; its not much to expect that the ones which do have a significant cost attached to it.

I don't see why it wouldn't play out similar to the current use of Power of Darkness: if you have 1 dice at the end of the magic phase, chuck it out there. Odds are it will pay off.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Yamagogimon18 »

No regen on a hydra would hurt. The regrow thing is kinds nice but it's gonna get killed in 1 turn by cannons and BTs anyway so the rule would be pretty worthless... I'm crossing my fingers that they just up the point cost...

The karibdyss(sp?) hitting with all 5 attacks bonus sounds cool but mostly worthless, seems extremely unlikely considering it will probably have WS 4 or 5. (even if it had WS 10 this is pretty low odds like... 13%) Re-roll passed leadership would be amazing, but if it doesn't have regen its gonna get cannoned/BTed off the table before it can get anywhere.

The Sisters negating ranks bonuses would be nice (especially if it broke steadfast!)

Signature spell giving +1S and PD is pretty powerful for a signature spell, but wounding yourself 1/3 of the time makes it terrible (might cast it 1 or 2 times a game). I'd believe these were separate spells though.

ASF and re-rolling 1's to wound sounds awesome and probably makes executioners our best infantry. :D

i just hope the hydra/karybdiss have some kind of ward save, they can't fly and no save would make them ridiculously easy WM targets... I like my monsters to be viable.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by islands »

ASF on executioners certainly makes them more flexible, but they lose a lot of their potential damage output (the first round of combat) compared to hatred.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Dyvim tvar »

I'll take it -- they are still going to be WS 5 I assume and striking first will often mean fewer attacks going back.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Phierlihy »

Wait...so if you're in base contact with the sisters of battle they remove rank bonuses. But they look like T3 elves with no armor so...after one round of combat, no one will be in base contact with them because they'll all be dead. =( Waitasecond, isn't that what Witch Brew does/did?
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by islands »

Dyvim tvar wrote:I'll take it -- they are still going to be WS 5 I assume and striking first will often mean fewer attacks going back.


yea absolutely. I hope they won't end up like copies of White Lions though. They should be unique in some way.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Dalamar »

Nah, witch brew removed enemy bonuses for higher ground as well as flank and rear charge. It was largely useless.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Yamagogimon18 »

I'd use the sisters as flankers, if you can get ~10 into the side your opponent would have to roll absurdly well with a very good unit (khorne halberds maybe?) to clear them, in which case you're down by 10 in the combat anyway so negating flanks wouldn't matter...

Execs aren't at all like White Lions! they have KB! ;)
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Omnichron »

xFallenx wrote:Exec's/BG, Chariots, Dark Riders....I'm certain I'm missing something else.

Warlocks :)
Yamagogimon18 wrote:Execs aren't at all like White Lions! they have KB! ;)

We don't know whether they still have it or not yet ;)

As ASF is the new rule for DE, a lot will be somewhat like HE. Our spear elves is probably much more similar than our Executioners, but I expect WL and Execs to be very close indeed. The main difference is that I think our executioners will be slightly stronger in close combat, but also more voulnerable to shooting.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Calisson »

Execs are rumoured to make 1D3 wounds and are likely recipients of the "reroll 1 for wounding". We don't know if they'll keep KB.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Cold73 »

Sisters removing rank bonusses could be interesting...would be major if it would remove steadfast as well. but somehow i doubt it.
Will make it even easier to win combat. Will it be overpowered? I don't think so... Witch Elves do/did so much damage they usually had no one left to fight after the first round of combat anyway.
What i am worried about though... would Sisters still keep their Poison?

Personally i would not mind if Exec lost KB and gained doing d3 wnds instead.... would make them a hell of a unit to counter Monstrous Cavalry and Ogres.
(might not even need a horde of Witch Elves anymore to counter an Ogre Deathstar Horde.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Chaffmaster »

If rumours are correct and executioners do d3 wounds this is inspired and may actually balance warhammer up a little it fights the multichariot multi m/c spam easily.

The models of this release look so cool, and mixed with existing corsairs it should be ace.

Really looking to see what Dark magic does but have heard rumours this mornign its very blasty with a lore attribute that does extra damage. Hopefully Dark elves are not the deathstar book high elves juts had written by the same author and with this race we can all carry on playing a multi threat army :o_O:
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Demetrius »

Is there a reliable source for d3 wound executioners? If it is true, they will be one of the best units in the game for sure if they also have ASF/ reroll 1s to wound.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Omnichron »

So, I'm just gonna summerize all the different rule rumors I've picked up thus far that is more or less reliable. I know there is more out there, but I can't find everything right now, so I'll just post what I remember and have found again.

Army Wide Rules:
- ASF (every elf)
- Reroll result of 1 when rolling to wound (might be just a few units or army wide for dark elves, like Martial Prowess for HE)

Magic:
- 2 Signature spells like HE.
- One of the spells (signature) goes off on a 8+ and grants a unit +1 strength and then you gain D3 power dice but if you gain 3 power dice this way the wizard suffers a wound with no saves allowed.
- Black Horror; Vortex, S test or die.

Lords and Heroes:
- There will be additions to the choices of characters as for the HE.
- Executioner, Corsair and Black Guard characters has ben mentioned.
- The Medusa hasn't only been shown on the bloodthrone, but also with a normal base. Is this Special chararacter or now a normal character choice?

Core:
Spear Elves
Crossbow Elves
Sword Elves
Witch Elves
- Are now core!
Dark Riders (most likely still core)
Corsairs (most likely still core)

Special:
Hydra
- Are now Special choice
- Lost regen and can get normal breath weapon (S4) as an upgrade
- Can get wounds back... somewhat like the slann (Although no details about actual rules of it)
- Normal monster and handler rules

Warlocks (Special or Rare)
- 4+ ward
- Cast spell like Pink Horrors. 2d6 S5 has been mentioned.
- Comes with close combat weapon(s)

Cold one Knights
- Cold ones have two attacks after Lizardmen update

Executioners
- ASF + ASL = Striking on Initiative == WIN!
- D3 Wounds (Might be when rolling 6 to wound instead of KB. Having D3 on all attacks would make them VERY powerful)

Shades

Cold one Chariots
- Cold ones have two attacks after Lizardmen update

Scroungerunner(or whatever its name is), (Special or Rare)
- Pulled by horses
- Bolt Thrower on it (Might be repeater and might be able to go without?). S7 has been mentioned.

Black Guard (Special or Rare)


Rare:
Kharybdyss (Kraken)
- Has 4 or 5 attacks (both has been mentioned). If all hits, and extra attack with multiple hits. S7.
- Scaly skin, Terror and reroll successful LD for those in base contact.
- Normal monster and handler rules

Sisters of Slaughter:
- Removes rank bonuses

Reaper bolt throwers:
- Lower points cost
- S7 has been mentioned

Big unknowns:
- Cauldron of Blood and Bloodwrack Shrine. Most likely able to take as character choice for one or both. Will either be able to be taken as rare (like Coven Throne and Mortis Engine for VC)?
- Bloodwrack Shrine has some sort of ranged attack. Cannonlike has been mentioned.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Calisson »

Thx for summary, apreciate greatly.

Reroll 1s, that's for selected units. Assume it is BG and Execs, possibly the new sisters in the rare slot.
Medusa is rumoured to be a stand-alone model or a model riding its own throne of blood (Bloodwrack Shrine). In both cases, that would be a rare slot, not a character.
WE core is, AFAIK, a wish, not a rumour, I don't recall reading it as such.
Details of hydra new regen based on getting 6s on rolling a d6 for each lost wound are described somewhere above.
Normal handler rules is doubtful as the handlers appear on the hydra/kraken base itself. May be or may not.
Warlocks have another bound spell, reducing Ld. Their 2d6 spell is a MM. They have a single handweapon each.
COK/COC two attacks are speculations, not rumours.
COB can be taken as mount for Hellebron (she is one of the models shown). Safe assumption is that it is a mount for supreme Hag (or whatever DH lords are called). COB will have to be pulled/pushed/inserted (pick up one) by a unit, very likely a khainite one.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Omnichron »

Thanks for those updates Calisson and van Awful.

Still having hatred? That sounds very powerful to me. Executioners must be a gazillion pts per!
If these latest rumors are true, it reeks of top of the top tiers.
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