New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

[Trax]

This would be the only thing I'd like it to be. If it was true. Which might be the case, but I haven't made my opinion up yet. But yeah, there's much to love already.

[strategem]

I have pretty much made my opinion up about the new book. It is as follows and you are free to disagree.

Dark Elves are much, much stronger army now than they were with the previous book.
BUT, They will also be much harder to master.

I love it.

I totally agree

[Setomidor]

Dark Elves are much, much stronger army now than they were with the previous book.
BUT, They will also be much harder to master.
I love it.

In my mind, the new book seems a lot weaker than the previous one at least in a tournament setting. What we had before was a range/finesse/blitzkrieg army that was extremely hard to score points against since the only units really looking for CC action were the magnificent Hydras, well protected Pegasus characters, and the odd Dragon. The armylist had very clear separations of roles for different units; Spearmen were cheap ablative wounds, Harpies the ultimate redirectors, rending star Assassins a menace at range that were hard to catch, and the above mentioned fighters were extremely potent and point efficient up-close. By having each of those units playing for their strengths only, the army list was very strong.

My impression so far is that the new army book will have less defined roles, and is likely to be weaker as a consequence. Ablative wounds (former Spearmen) are up in cost by 50%, and even though they are better fighters that means we no longer have any cheap throw-away infantry that can valiantly hold a big unit of Skullcrushers for a couple of turns. Our redirectors are up by about 50% as well, and will probably come in the shape of Dark Riders with a mixed role of fighting and redirecting, paying the price for being able to be both. Of our previously potent close combat fighters, it seems only the Dragon will remain the same threat as before.

I think the key to being successful in the new book is, as before, to focus on the units that fulfils one role and does that very point-efficiently. I'm thinking Bolt Throwers, Executioners, Shades, (small units of) Witch Elves, Cold one Chariots, etc. A counter example would be the Scourgerunner, which as a shooting and weak chariot hybrid seems to pay a lot of points to be mediocre at both.

Don't get me wrong -- I am looking forward to the new list as much as the next guy because the current army book no longer offer a lot of variation. I'm just saying that people who get on the bandwagon because the DE are the new cheese might be disappointed.

[Krueger1981]

I don't think the book is bad at all. Oh noes no more pendant of skillful anymore. Competitive wise I believe we will run 2 lvl 4's. Our combat characters took a hit with one exception being a fire and forget assassin. Probably cloak of twilight, ogre sword (if he can take 50 points of magic weapons), manbane, ahw. Str 6 wounding as if str7 d3 wounds plus kb don't sound bad at all. Probably use him as a lvl 4 killer.

Harpies aren't as bad as people are making them out to be I probably won't 3x unit of 5 them anymore but 2x5 won't be bad. 2 units of naked 5 strong dr aren't the end of the world. So 4 units of re directors for around 300 points doesn't hurt bad. With shades also we will have enough to dominate movement.

Hydras seem somewhat survivable compared to the rare beast. For 90 slaves with a breath weapon as a flanker for a we unit or sister unit they will get the job done. If you use the rare monster probably need to take lvl 4 life to keep it upright.

Cok probably took a hit mainly from just losing hydra banner but if they collapse the flank and head towards the center of your blocks they should pick up frenzy when they get near CoB.

Exe's seem nice They will probably be my razor standard users. I think the new models look sweet as well for them (to each their own on models appearance however).

I hope the medusa shrine has more rules we don't know about yet but the cauldron still seems good (miss t10 though).

[Omnichron]

I agree with that summery Setomidor.

One of the best ways to win in a tournament perspective, is to not lose much and take points where you can. Previously, we had a few choices that gave us the resilience we needed, but now I think it's HE that has that little edge.

It remains to be seen how good the new book is, but getting access to all the lores of BRB is a big up for us. Also, the armor killers are more accessible for us now than previously, meaning that we are less dependent on Mindrazor.

I can't wait to test out new lists.

[Shadoer]

Hmm a couple of theory hammer things I've been cooking up based on the leaks

Assassin Combos:

Now that our Assassins can take magic items, we have a bunch of options open.

Like for example, we could run an Assassin with the Sword of Striking (+1 to hit), the Potion of Strength (+3 str) and give him killing blow. Thanks to always strike first and the Assassin's ridiculous weapon skill, he will be hitting on 2+ with rerolls for most combats, almost guerenteeing we'll get 3 hits into wounds. Once we roll to wound, assuming we have used the potion of strength, we have a 50% chance (assuming all three attacks made it through) to get off killing blow and if not, we should wound most things on a 2+ assuming we have used the Potion of Strength.

It's not perfect, but it does give us half decent odds of knocking off an enemy hero like an assassin is supposed to do.

Mask of Eee! and Wailing Banner

Both of these items can give us terror, something that wasn't that useful in the age of Battlestandard Rerolls... however, now that we have a spell that can prevent those rerolls and several other abilities to lower leadership... these items have suddenly gotten a lot more useful.

In theory, we can easily give a couple of more units terror in the game, helping us to break the enemy.

[Setomidor]

Hrm, I like the ideas but in both cases I'd either rather have another 15 Executioners for the same points cost or an Hydra/Kharibhyss

[Ehakir]

Agreed Dalamar. Whilst on first glance our mindless combinations of power are gone, we have a huge lot of little synergies which can help us greatly. I can already imagine a scourgerunner shooting a monster to drag it some inches towards itself to prevent it from being able to charge your witch elves in the flank. Indeed, difficult to master, and a lot of different offensive protective manoeuvres will be possible to guarantee your win IMO. Me likey.

[Setomidor]

Agreed Dalamar. Whilst on first glance our mindless combinations of power are gone, we have a huge lot of little synergies which can help us greatly. I can already imagine a scourgerunner shooting a monster to drag it some inches towards itself to prevent it from being able to charge your witch elves in the flank. Indeed, difficult to master, and a lot of different offensive protective manoeuvres will be possible to guarantee your win IMO. Me likey.

I'm still naively hoping that everyone with the book haven't noticed BS5 on the Scourgerunner With BS5 it would actually be a useful tool: pulling monsters within 24" of our crossbows and RBTs during the first turn to make them hit more easily. But as it stands, BS4 is not enough to do that as it only hits on 5+ after moving.

[Dragon9]

But, if you're going to be using the hero, you can put a Beastlord in the Scourgerunner who has BS7. So that's always an option if you wanna fly with that.

[Ehakir]

BS4 is not enough to do that as it only hits on 5+ after moving.

True. We will find out how useful the scourgerunner is after some battle reports. I can easily imagine that it is a nice threat to guard a flank. Any flying monster without good ward save will still not be wanting to park within LoS and 24" of this thing because of its 50% chance to inflict a S7 D3 wounds no asv hit... The fear this thing can impose is quite big..
I'm in heavy doubt about this beastmaster lord on this extremely vulnerable chariot... you pay 160 points to get a 2+ to hit on your chariot but the other way around, you are paying 140 points to give your lord a 24" S7 D3 wound attack that hits on 2+... Endless doubts...

[Dalamar]

Fast, maneuverable model... if you're hitting on 5s more than on 4s then you've been outplayed in the movement phase.

[Liquidedust]

Fast, maneuverable model... if you're hitting on 5s more than on 4s then you've been outplayed in the movement phase.

Have to remember though, even pivoting on a chariot counts as movement. Which pretty much means we will a lot of the timel have at least -1 to hit just to aim the thing.

[Enkiel]

I have pretty much made my opinion up about the new book. It is as follows and you are free to disagree.

Dark Elves are much, much stronger army now than they were with the previous book.
BUT, They will also be much harder to master.

I love it.

I'd like to know how so.

I'm a strong believer that the book required to be put in line with the rest, but how is it much stronger? ASF?

That alone make Exec awesome, but i'm wondering, what else?

To me, the only difference is that now there's no auto-include (or at least, the auto-include are less likely to be played by all).

[Calisson]

I've edited the RULE RUMOURS COMPENDIUM p.15 of present thread with all the highly interesting information received today.
(accessible from portal with a single click).

Now we can sart serious mathammer.

[Forumite]

The Compendium says Dark Steeds have Fast Cavalry! Our Sorceresses on Dark Steeds are Fast Cav! That means they are still Fast Cav when in a unit of Dark Riders and Warlocks! My army just got much more maneuverable! Awesome!

I wonder if it´s a waste of points to use the Sacrifical dagger on Crossbow+Shield Dark Riders.

[Sisstros]

I am really looking forward to trying out the new book, having run broadly the same Lore of Metal themed army list for the whole of 8th edition.

However, with Bolt Throwers and the Hydra both being in the Special section now, is anyone else struggling to stay under the 50% cap?

I have written three lists I would like to try out so far and none of the three have put any points into the Rare section.

[Gerner]

I am really looking forward to trying out the new book, having run broadly the same Lore of Metal themed army list for the whole of 8th edition.

However, with Bolt Throwers and the Hydra both being in the Special section now, is anyone else struggling to stay under the 50% cap?

I have written three lists I would like to try out so far and none of the three have put any points into the Rare section.

Have you seen the rules for Warlocks? They are unbelievable good in my opinion.

[Taijushue]

After reading through the numerous pages here, I didn't see the stats for a few generic heroes and troops. am I correct in assuming that the Dreadlord and Master and the others that haven't been covered have the same basic stats as before?

[Dalamar]

I believe they got a little cheaper, but other than getting new rules than everyone else did, they're the same.

[Fr0]

7.5 slaves

Hey, wait I missed this. Are slaves still a rumour at this point? It's like the nightmare of those threads all over again. o.O

My god do the executioners look amazing! SoS and Warlocks both seem like they have huge potential, and offer some nice utility.

[Ragian Cain]

Having a look at the book Shadowblade can no longer hide in enemy units, only friendly but can move between them.

The Cauldron is a chariot mount, can join units, no special rules about counting as models in the unit.
Im still not sure how shooting against a unit with a Cauldron in works! Anyone have any idea? Chariot mount for a Hero, can march, can leave and join units like a character, must be places front/center. Large Target.

[Liquidedust]

Having a look at the book Shadowblade can no longer hide in enemy units, only friendly but can move between them.

The Cauldron is a chariot mount, can join units, no special rules about counting as models in the unit.
Im still not sure how shooting against a unit with a Cauldron in works! Anyone have any idea? Chariot mount for a Hero, can march, can leave and join units like a character, must be places front/center. Large Target.

Cannot be singled out since in unit, no Look Out Sir, does not have conflicting footprint so should count as additional models for ranks/width.

Though they are a large target which makes things a little complicated . . . .

[Ragian Cain]

Furthermore, the Assassin rules don't mention making a note of where each Assassin is hiding, unlike previous editions!

[Ragian Cain]

Here is a 'spell' card for the Cauldron's innate spell 'Fury of Khaine'.

If this is against the rules, or tomorrow when the Dark Magic deck is released has one included please feel free to delete the post.

Just trying to help fellow D.netters

Fury of Khaine Spell Card