New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

[van Awful]

nice, thanks mate!

[Scyloc]

Thank you very much Ragian Cain.

Looks very nice.

2 thumbs up!

[WithHatred]

Hi guys, my first post on Druchii.net, although I've been following this post intently to study the rumors!

Now that I've been so lucky to get my hands in the new army book ONE day before release (impressive I know ) I like so many of you guys out there find myself trying to figure out how to compose a fun, challenging and competitive list.

Anyways I have a few questions, maybe more of a statement to two!

1st. this is the wording on the "Strength of Khaine" special rule for the Cauldron of Blood.
Strength of Khaine: "Friendly models with the Murderous Prowess special rule in units within 6" of the Cauldron of Blood re-roll all failed To Wound rolls."

Are you kidding me? this must be a mistake, a typo or smth like that!!
As i read it at this exact wording xbowmen, xbow dark riders will be able, no, MUST reroll their ranged failed to wound rolls!! This might even apply to bolt throwers and scrunge runners within 6", (I'm not sure on the last two and the rule applyes to MODELS with Murderous Prowess, ie. Scrungerunner is ONE model..)
Am I right here or do I read this wrong?

Also you HAVE to at least consider putting a Death Hag with Witchbrew in a unit of Executioners and/or Executioners as there are no longer any limit to what units the Death Hag can join and the Witchbrew itself gives Frenzy to the unit the Death Hag joins.
yes I know that -3LD on the frenzy check is a big liability, even though our Cauldron hag can be BSB and is now a large target, 24" reroll psychology tests right?, anyways we are Dark Elves! There are no other race out there who has more ways of countering enemy re-directors

Anyways this was my first 2cents!

-WithHatred

[Dragon9]

1st. this is the wording on the "Strength of Khaine" special rule for the Cauldron of Blood.
Strength of Khaine: "Friendly models with the Murderous Prowess special rule in units within 6" of the Cauldron of Blood re-roll all failed To Wound rolls."

Are you kidding me? this must be a mistake, a typo or smth like that!!
As i read it at this exact wording xbowmen, xbow dark riders will be able, no, MUST reroll their ranged failed to wound rolls!! This might even apply to bolt throwers and scrunge runners within 6", (I'm not sure on the last two and the rule applyes to MODELS with Murderous Prowess, ie. Scrungerunner is ONE model..)
Am I right here or do I read this wrong?

That's generally what "re-roll all failed to wound rolls" means.

IOW, MP usually lets you reroll 1's on your wound rolls, but that gives them the ability to reroll any failed wound roll, not just ones. SO yeah, pretty nice.

EDIT: But note: it says "models" not units. So you won't get as much mileage from it outside the unit the CoB is joined with.

[Liquidedust]

1st. this is the wording on the "Strength of Khaine" special rule for the Cauldron of Blood.
Strength of Khaine: "Friendly models with the Murderous Prowess special rule in units within 6" of the Cauldron of Blood re-roll all failed To Wound rolls."

Are you kidding me? this must be a mistake, a typo or smth like that!!
As i read it at this exact wording xbowmen, xbow dark riders will be able, no, MUST reroll their ranged failed to wound rolls!! This might even apply to bolt throwers and scrunge runners within 6", (I'm not sure on the last two and the rule applyes to MODELS with Murderous Prowess, ie. Scrungerunner is ONE model..)
Am I right here or do I read this wrong?

That's generally what "re-roll all failed to wound rolls" means.

IOW, MP usually lets you reroll 1's on your wound rolls, but that gives them the ability to reroll any failed wound roll, not just ones. SO yeah, pretty nice.

EDIT: But note: it says "models" not units. So you won't get as much mileage from it outside the unit the CoB is joined with.

Imagine a council of RXB's with a level 4 surrounded by 4 RBTs that is babysat by a Cauldron and you'll soon start to see why this rule is borderline broken.

As written right now, yes it allows you to re-roll all failed wounds, not just close combat as per Murderous Prowess. And a huddled up shooting and magic council can really hurt with a Cauldron nearby.

[WithHatred]

I see you are not as surprised as me that this effect is not only applying to Close combat as is the case with murderous prowess

I'm pretty sure the Strength of Khaine rule says that models in units within 6" of the Cauldron of blood re-rolls all failed to wound rolls.. as it is friendly models with the Murderous Prowess rule IN UNITS within 6", this is basically just specifying that models WITHOUT the murderous prowess rule in units within 6" doesn't get to reroll to wound.

[jeffman]

the question is: do bolt trowers have the MP rule?

[Dalamar]

The crew does.

[Liquidedust]

the question is: do bolt trowers have the MP rule?

Yes

[Trax]

The Cauldron's buff' wording is most likely an oversight, I wouldn't be surprised if it got faq'ed surprisingly fast. On that note: The German AB allows corsairs doesn't allow corsairs to take handbows... but rather proper Rxbs. GW always fucks up somewhere...

As for the Cauldron BSB, it would be 18", which is a nice bonus, but I'm still on the fence about putting my BSB on there, because cannonsniping a BSB was hardly any easier than here... And whilst I'm pretty positive of being able to shut cannons down in turn 2, one or two shots in turn 1 are pretty bad already... Maybe I've gottaa put a Hydra on ball-catching duty...

And about the model/unit problem. The rule reads "Friendly models with the Murderous Prowess special rule in units within 6" reroll all failed to wounds roll:" - I don't know how to even get the idea that units might only be patially affected.

[Dalamar]

Actually translations are not done by GW. Or at least they didn't use to be. I know a company that was doind translations fo Polish... they were a FLGS....

[Liquidedust]

The Cauldron's buff' wording is most likely an oversight, I wouldn't be surprised if it got faq'ed surprisingly fast. On that note: The German AB allows corsairs doesn't allow corsairs to take handbows... but rather proper Rxbs. GW always fucks up somewhere...

As for the Cauldron BSB, it would be 18", which is a nice bonus, but I'm still on the fence about putting my BSB on there, because cannonsniping a BSB was hardly any easier than here... And whilst I'm pretty positive of being able to shut cannons down in turn 2, one or two shots in turn 1 are pretty bad already... Maybe I've gottaa put a Hydra on ball-catching duty...

And about the model/unit problem. The rule reads "Friendly models with the Murderous Prowess special rule in units within 6" reroll all failed to wounds roll:" - I don't know how to even get the idea that units might only be patially affected.

We read the rules late at night and everyone bombared us with questions at the same time Trax!

[WithHatred]

the question is: do bolt trowers have the MP rule?

The special rules for the Bolt thrower is: (dark elf crew:)always strike first, Hatred(highelves), Murderous Prowess.
The Bolt thrower itself does not, but the question is: Does the thrower and the crew count as ONE model? I dont know these exact rules for War Machines and crew, but i doubt it works, however I'm semi sure that this rule will apply to the Scrungerunners bolt thrower as that one is ONE model!?!?!?

[Liquidedust]

the question is: do bolt trowers have the MP rule?

The special rules for the Bolt thrower is: (dark elf crew:)always strike first, Hatred(highelves), Murderous Prowess.
The Bolt thrower itself does not, but the question is: Does the thrower and the crew count as ONE model? I dont know these exact rules for War Machines and crew, but i doubt it works, however I'm semi sure that this rule will apply to the Scrungerunners bolt thrower as that one is ONE model!?!?!?

Count as a single model with the unit type warmachine.

[Calisson]

Welcome WithHatred to D.net!

3LD on the frenzy check is a big liability

That's for "double-frenzy". Execs with witchbrew would get the normal Ld check.

[Trax]

We read the rules late at night and everyone bombared us with questions at the same time Trax!

I wasn't pointing fingers, I just find it rather... peculiar to read the Aura in that way.

@Translations
Yeah, but it's their product, they have to stand in for it and obviously the QA is lacking. The books are expensive enough as is, you'd think you could at least expect the rule pages to be properly translated.

[jeffman]

about the couldren rule, i wouldn't know how they intended it. They could mean that you could re-roll ALL instead of just close combat. they could mean all instead of just 1s

it could both equally in my eyes, though verry powerfull indeed

imagine 4d6 s5 hits rerolleble :-)

[Trax]

Yeah, imagine. And that's why it's pretty surely not intended. It's hard to put this into points and it's not like the naked cauldron's cost (without the heck) justifies the ability to reroll *all* wounds.

[Praetorian1979]

Yeah, imagine. And that's why it's pretty surely not intended. It's hard to put this into points and it's not like the naked cauldron's cost (without the heck) justifies the ability to reroll *all* wounds.

True, and then again HE do have a banner they pay peanuts for, which gives of a huge advantage.

I'm picking up my book in 12 hours, and after reading through this thread and the one on warseer for, what feels like the thousandth, time. I am getting more and more excited to read and re-read everything.

[Trax]

Well, with the BotWD in mind... Might as well be "correct", you're right

[Vurath]

With the entire Dark Elf book basically geared up to murder High Elves. I don't think the BOTWD will make much difference. As for interpreting the rules for the cauldron to say re-roll 'all' woundss, and not just close combat attacks, that's just silly, and nothing more than twisting the wording to our advantage.

[Dalamar]

No, it's actually reading the rule the way it's written.

[HERO]

With the entire Dark Elf book basically geared up to murder High Elves. I don't think the BOTWD will make much difference. As for interpreting the rules for the cauldron to say re-roll 'all' woundss, and not just close combat attacks, that's just silly, and nothing more than twisting the wording to our advantage.

You think the book is out to murder high elves?

lol

[Saintofm]

With the entire Dark Elf book basically geared up to murder High Elves. I don't think the BOTWD will make much difference. As for interpreting the rules for the cauldron to say re-roll 'all' woundss, and not just close combat attacks, that's just silly, and nothing more than twisting the wording to our advantage.

You think the book is out to murder high elves?

lol

Murder is such a naughty rule. Think of it as dispatching the kin that shunned the true path of enlightenment with the gentle impact of falling giant. [Can now check off my first item on a list of cliched villeiny].

Questions on the madusa.

If she is not taken on the shrine, is she a rare choice? If so is it a one model unit or can there be several?

[Calisson]

Stand-alone medusa is a rare MI unit, size 1. It means that you can take 2 medusas, separately.
In addition, you can take two shrines with their medusa as crew, and they can remain stand-alone or join any unit like a character (only one per unit).
Nothing prevents a shrine to join a medusa unit.