New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

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Krueger1981
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Krueger1981 »

He also said bg cost 7.5 slaves and exe's cost 6 slaves. Apparently exe retain kb and don't get d3 wounds.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Trax »

Krueger1981 wrote:
Trax wrote:One guy on Warseer's claiming to hold the AB in his hands. For one he said that DE are now allowed to choose any of the 8 RB lores. I'd still rather have a great own lore, but that opens up quite some options... Why pick Black Horror if you can have Dwellers.


I have seen some arguments that black horror the way it is worded would get threw botwd. So I guess that is the main reason you would take it if that holds up.


Yeah, but to me it's blatantly clear it's getting through BotWD anyway since it's not causing wounds, but auto-kills - just like all the other 6-spells that don't allow ward saves in the first place (unlike ours - the Dhar-empowered spell that allows saves...). It's just the crude BotWD wording (with not offering a flat ward save, but one against "wounds") that makes this possible. Plus dwellers is sure to hit the unit you want and not... don't know, your sorc (don't know if this is actually the case, though) or nothing at all.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Krueger1981 »

I normally don't engage in rules discussions till I see a faq. But that to me would be the one reason you would take it.

But if we get 8 lores it will be great if I can fit dual supreme sorc still at 2500 with life and shadow. I hope the 8 lores holds up. Have 2 supremes, one death hag bsb on cauldron + lvl 1-2 metal sorceress would rock hero wise for my playstyle.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Trax »

Problem is: Dual Sorc used to be viable thanks to Power of Darkness and the Dagger. Power of Darkness turned into a pile of useless junk (since you're going to get at most one additional dice out of it (plus a wound possible if that's the case), since you can't start one-dicing it if you're using it on a Supreme Sorc and if the first rumours about the dagger (only works on 4+, useable until the PD is actually generated), then we've got only one more PD than all other armies. When's been the last time you've seen a non-DE army using double lvl4? In your list you had ~10 magic lvls plus the bound spell of the cauldron and you had it to sustain with ~8 PD on average. Good luck with getting your points' worth out of it.

For what it's worth, I'm really happy about Lore of Life since it will work great for monster focused lists.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

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I'm more of a quantity of spells player than a quallity of spells. Granted with dark being expensive that might end. But 2-4 debuffs/buffs, Potentially a black staff like item for pod, so maybe 1-2 pod castings. Would be feasible. Sac dagger is back according to poster but no info said about it yet that I am aware of.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

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Oh my gosh. He posted pics, and if the new black horses aren't the worst... did they breed them with rabbits? What's up with the teeth?^^

Not a fan of the riders either (but I don't need those anyway), but the warlocks don't look much better. Hm. What do, what do...

Black Guard looks good to me and executioners better than expected, even though I still might try to get 7ed metal ones. The normal chariot looks pretty good, the other.. well, it's okay. The horses look still ridiculous, though. As for the fleetmaster.. I have no words. The concept is absolutely... horribly... stupid. Like.. Skycutter-Stupid. What if he *EVER* during his lifetime as a *pirate* that doesn't just dwell on frosted earth and ships but god forbid on normal, humid ground? Right, he'd sink right in and be stuck there. Up for grabs. Gosh...
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Krueger1981 »

Sac dagger still seems good. Sac dude roll d6 after using cast dice to cast spell if 4+ you get to add to spell. Can try multiple times. Once you hit a 4+ roll dice again to add to spell.

So guess that means spearmen will still have a use lol. Didn't post cost of it yet though.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

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Lol it is 25 points. A steal again just not as good as last book.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Trax »

25p, he added it in the meantime. Sword warriors might be cheaper now, though, don't really think leaving shields at home is still an option for Spearelves.

Hm, Sac dagger only lost half its efficiency, that's pretty good all things considered even though it will be way more costly to use it now with the increase in troop cost and 50% chance to work only.

Magic is out and... okay, let's have it again for rulebook lores! Gosh, that's depressing. Every spell is about as bad as I feared beforehand.
The attribute is utter garbage.
PoD targets the Sorc's bunker only.
Soul Quench's big brother pays 4 complexity for a single point of strength.
Chillwind with 2W6 S2 and only -1 BS.
The single light in there is the greater version of word of pain - while the smaller one is utter bullcrap. 9+? Miasma anyone? How often is both WS and BS important.
I elaborated elsewhere why this Bladewind is lacklustre (lack of proper targets)
Shroud of Despair... Depends. 12" around the Sorc is not that big and it doesn't even come with a morale malus to begin with.
Soul Stealer scatters, which is terribad in its own right, but only D6" might still be ok, anyway, nowhere near its former strength (well, was to be expected)
And Black Horror is like the other Vortices - only worse. Autokill with ward save and Strength test instead of - for instance - the much more useful Sun. At the same complexity I might add (and Sun even gives you some more PD to play with).

This is really a dark day for Black Magic.
Last edited by Trax on Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Dragon9 »

Image of magic page from AB

Credit to zhangyi at Warseer

Also, he confirmed the Scroungerunner BT is S7. Hit monster is dragged d6", if >3" it suffer extra wound.
Warlocks have Doombolt and Soulblight as bound spells, +1 to casting per rank, max +3. 4++ except vs. Demons of or Mark of Slaanesh.
Warriors are 4.5 slaves, includes spears & shields or hw&shield
Last edited by Dragon9 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Krueger1981
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Krueger1981 »

Trax wrote:25p, he added it in the meantime. Sword warriors might be cheaper now, though, don't really think leaving shields at home is still an option for Spearelves.

Hm, Sac dagger only lost half its efficiency, that's pretty good all things considered even though it will be way more costly to use it now with the increase in troop cost and 50% chance to work only.

Magic is out and... okay, let's have it again for rulebook lores! Gosh, that's depressing. Every spell is about as bad as I feared beforehand.
The attribute is utter garbage.
PoD targets the Sorc's bunker only.
Soul Quench's big brother pays 4 complexity for a single point of strength.
Chillwind with 2W6 S2 and only -1 BS.
The single light in there is the greater version of word of pain - while the smaller one is utter bullcrap. 9+? Miasma anyone? How often is both WS and BS important.
I elaborated elsewhere why this Bladewind is lacklustre (lack of proper targets)
Shroud of Despair... Depends. 12" around the Sorc is not that big and it doesn't even come with a morale malus to begin with.
Soul Stealer scatters, which is terribad in its own right, but only D6" might still be ok, anyway, nowhere near its former strength (well, was to be expected)
And Black Horror is like the other Vortices - only worse. Autokill with ward save and Strength test instead of - for instance - the much more useful Sun. At the same complexity I might add (and Sun even gives you some more PD to play with).

This is really a dark day for Black Magic.


Bladewind will do nicely against hordes (slaves, gnoblars and night goblins).
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

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Heck really any unit that is 5+ save or worse and ws 3 or less.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Trax »

Yeah, but you know what else does nicely with hordes? Every single DE melee unit, witches and such cut right through their huge numbers. But yeah, fairly, you've found the single use of bladewind. To elaborate: I'd want some destructive spells to deal with units we can't manhandle in combat (like most troops with WS5 for instance) and against such, the spell is blatantly useless.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Fr0 »

Cool, the Murderous Intent seems to function like the old Dark Venom upgrade for assassins. Hydras moving to Special.

Not sure how I feel about what are essentially Witch Elves wielding shields, and whips but we'll have to see the stories/rules. New Dark Rider exe/BG plastics, multipurpose box sets, Gorgon that can take a sort of CoB, Kraken - man I can't wait til' I get the new book. Totally preordered that as soon as I could!

*edit* wow, WE are core, RBT moves to special, new Wyches/SoS are rare and appear to be some sort of tarpit unit - (I'll just refer to them as Wyches from now on, lol) mobile RBT, Warlocks? Man I can't wait for this book..
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Sulla »

I love dark magic! Malekith shall rule supreme with the new doombolt, soul stealer, and black horror. Cheap enough to fit on a chariot too by the sounds of it.

So many of the new toys I want to shoehorn into my list... Harpoon chariot, Kharybidyss, warlocks, medusa.... Bring it on!
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Krueger1981 »

Mindrazor still words for those types. Granted its mindrazor but this way we could potentially cut threw the chaff without charging them and clearing them out of the way for lanes to worthwhile units.

Heck the spell more or less is a better old black horror minus the panic check however.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

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Attribute - meh, it's nothing crazy overpowered like Shield of Saphery but extra hits are never bad.
Power of Darkness - sadly as we feared only the caster's unit... but if we can have our wizards protected in combat it will be handy. Still not likely to take it but it's a sig so no waste
Doombolt - Hear the high elves cry Soul Quench is S4 while being the same... except needing 4 less to be cast, and 8? less for boosted version.
Chillwind - I don't know what to think about it yet... it seems we're getting a lot of low strength hits everywhere.
Word of Pain - BROKEN. This spell is officially broken, WS, BS, I and Strength! for mere 12+? oh yes, every day.
Bladewind - it will slaughter hordes instead of being a warmachine sniper spell. I like it.
Shroud of Despair - do you understand what a game changer spell this has potential to be? all units within 12" can't use BSB or General, once one fails a Ld test we can create a cascading chain reaction (cumulative with itself... so -1 for each unit that failed... until next magic phase so during their rally tests! and then we run them down!)
Soul Stealer - yeah, it will need large units to target so the scatter doesn't hurt it too much, but healing our wizards is priceless
Black Horror - inferior to Purple Sun, sadly but it still has potential.

Must have spells:
Shroud of Despair. Simply. Must. Have.
Soul Stealer. I want to keep my Level 4 alive (to a maximum of 10 WOUNDS do you see that? good luck killing the wizard after a nice soul stealer lands on your infantry)
Word of Pain. Combat winner right there.

Good spells:
Doombolt - expensive to cast but it has potential
Black Horror - carefully chosen target will hate it, though it's more risky to us than Purple Sun
Bladewind - good to clean out hordes but a lot of rolling.

Underwhelming spells:
Power of Darkness - if it wasn't on caster's unit, it would be a must have spell. This severely limits its usefulness.
Chillwind - yeah, 2d6 hits... but S2? meh.

Overall I like it. It's a lore with a potential that will have to be successfully tapped.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Trax »

Yup, reread Despair and I previously thought the -1 on Ld would be just for the unit failing a test, but this way it's got some use.

In the end, I might even be okay with Bladewind and think of it more as a Soul Stealer step-in.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

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Fr0 wrote:Not sure how I feel about what are essentially Witch Elves wielding shields, and whips but we'll have to see the stories/rules.


According to the poster at Warseer, they are 7.5 slaves, WS6, 4++ in cc, +1to hit and wound vs. models with higher WS or S, and one nominated in contact loses rank bonus (but not steadfast according to poster) and parry. [sic] I assume he means parry save.
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Krueger1981
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Krueger1981 »

Yeah I'm with you Dalamar dark magic ain't bad. Only one I would auto drop would be chill wind in my eyes.

The warlocks have either doombolt or soulblight from death so if they can be protected they seem cool.

Wish I had a warseer account to ask him what the special rules for the cauldron and medusa wagon are and if the medusa wagon can join a unit :( .
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Fr0 »

Yeah, I got that - I was referring more to the models. I should have specified though. Just saw the new magic too, looks pretty good. Never been a bit magic user, but I like some of the new spells. I don't know if it was changed last edition, or just in the new one but directed SS is nice. Doombolt is super blasty and Black Horror is just nasty. PoD has just gotten better in my eyes. SoD will definitely have its uses as well and I'm fond of the lore attribute. Though not amazing, a neat bonus.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Trax »

Krueger1981 wrote:The warlocks have either doombolt or soulblight from death so if they can be protected they seem cool.


He said they have both spells, which is pretty nice (since they count as a lvl 2 caster).
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

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Actually I'd say pictures for the rules would be easier for him potentially for the cauldron and medusa shrine. The warlocks seem cool too in a list with magic users you don't have to take doombolt on a sorceress and soulblight with a combination of shadow and dark seems like we will have the best debuffing potential army wise in the game.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Trax »

Yeah, I agree, a free Soulblight without having to use a Death Sorc (and actually rolling Soulblight) is huge.

edit:

And the magic items.
Well, the Hydrablade is a novelty item, no surprise there.
Chillblade seems unnecessary with Murderous Prowess, and you'd still have problems with armor.
Black Dragon Egg got up in points, but that's alright I guess. No armor saves breath, S6. Works out for me.
I love the cloak actually, screams Assassin, but might be just as good for any other combat chars, multiple wounds is just that great.
Black amulet at 60p is really good.. I thought until I've read the challenge thing. Oh well. Maybe.. sometimes...
Ring of Hotek is... hm, well, the MR alone is worth the price (almost), so it's alright. And finally it grants some defense to units around the bearer.
Banner of Nagarythe is crap as usual.
For the Gem will be no room with the dagger AND tome around, I guess.
Dagger is still good, and the Tome is huge if you want some specific spells.
Last edited by Trax on Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS

Post by Krueger1981 »

Yeah just read it guarented one spell from dark for 25 points is beautiful. The ring of hotek is pretty good to if included in a unit 5-7 wide as well 3 units of our battleline that the enemy won't want to cast at.

Nevermind not any double just double 1's and 6's on it still though it is a mr 3 item but 50 points is a bit pricey.
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