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New DE armybook RULES RUMOURS 
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Malekith's Best Friend

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Awesome, thanks a lot!

That means no Cob/Throne kit at this point -- 175 + 90 for the Medusa will make it a really expensive chariot unless it has some special rule that is still unheard of.


Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:10 am
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Noble
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Jossy, can you confirm that Masters and Dreadlords can still take a Dark Pegasus as mount? 25 slaves still?

And most importantly, can they still take a Sea Dragon Cloak as mundane equipment?

If you have the time, can you tell us about the Bloodwrack Throne and Medusa?

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:11 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

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Something just occurred to me -- according to the rumours neither the Hydra nor Kharibhyss has the Monster and Handler rule, that should mean that they can use the Handlers initiative for stuff like Purple Sun, right?


Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:12 am
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Noble
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Setomidir, they dont have any handlers at all.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:17 am
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Noble

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Scyloc wrote:
Setomidir, they dont have any handlers at all.


Who are those 2 Guys on the Hydra base with the Whips?


Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:25 am
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Noble
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Just part of the model. They have no effect on the rules in any way. They have no attacks or anything.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:27 am
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Noble

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Scyloc wrote:
Just part of the model. They have no effect on the rules in any way. They have no attacks or anything.


Meh :(
Seems like Darkelves got alot Nerfs after all.


Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:30 am
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Noble
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Yes, right now, our regular builds will not provide much challenge in a tournament.

So we are forced to think outside the box, and develop new key units, strategies and builds.
Time will tell, what builds and synergies we find, and how that places us in the current meta.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:32 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

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Scyloc wrote:
Just part of the model. They have no effect on the rules in any way. They have no attacks or anything.


Are you 100% certain? The rules summaries just say "no Monsters and Handler rule".

If they are left completely without Handlers they will only be LD6, which means they can never leave the LD range of the general.


Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:50 am
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Assassin: 90 points
hand weapon + thrown weapon
5994321038
A killer not a leader (cant be general, unit cant use his Ld)
ASF
Hatred (HE)
Hidden (may hide in unit, can be revealed at beginning of your movment or in any CC phase)
ItP
MP
Poisoned attacks

can take Rxb (5), or adh (2)
can take one of the following:
Black lotus (15) each unsaved wound causes permanent -1 Ld - includes ranged
Dark Venom (20) kb
Manbane (20) +1 to wound on all rolls to wound

can have magic items total up to 50 points

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:54 am
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Setomidor wrote:
Scyloc wrote:
Just part of the model. They have no effect on the rules in any way. They have no attacks or anything.


Are you 100% certain? The rules summaries just say "no Monsters and Handler rule".

If they are left completely without Handlers they will only be LD6, which means they can never leave the LD range of the general.


I can tell you now reading from the book that the War Hydra and Khardribble (whatever) has unit type "monster" and there is no special rule at all printed in the bestiary, army list selection or summary called "monster & handler" or indeed anything like it.

It may be an oversight and get errata'd, but as the book stands now, no monster and handler

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:58 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

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Jossy wrote:
I can tell you now reading from the book that the War Hydra and Khardribble (whatever) has unit type "monster" and there is no special rule at all printed in the bestiary, army list selection or summary called "monster & handler" or indeed anything like it.

It may be an oversight and get errata'd, but as the book stands now, no monster and handler


Yes, but are there actual handlers? Like riders of a Chariot?


Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:59 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

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Jossy wrote:
Black lotus (15) each unsaved wound causes permanent -1 Ld - includes ranged


Does it say wound on model or wound on unit? If we can lower the Ld of a whole unit permanently by throwing knives at them that would be... sick :)


Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:01 am
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Warrior

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Black lotus + shooting would be realy realy broken. I can see GW do that misstake but then it will get fixed in the erata.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:11 am
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Quote:
hand weapon + thrown weapon


This thrown weapon ? still the rules for Rending star?
In that case, in combo with manbane, you'd still get str. 5 +1 to wound thrown weapon (though a hell of a lot cheaper)
Not the briliant melee assassin everyone, inlcuding me, was hoping for. But stil a viable combo

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:42 am
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Just FYI, on Ulthuan some are in the "OMG DE outshines in every aspect of the game" frenzy.

Others post things like:
Quote:
Gotta disagree with hero. :P

Dark elves don't have any of the stuff that makes "hard tournament lists": They don't have easy access to 1+/2+ armor saves, they don't have easy access to high strength, they don't have powerful flying monsters, hard-as-nails characters, monstrous cavalry, ...

The things that kept DE in the runnings are gone and replaced with fluffy low strength infantry stuff and weak monsters. Once in a blue moon their strengths will shine and they will win a thing. But consistently doing great against "the big Four"? I don't see it. What's a chaos army w/ core heavy chariots and MC and demon princes going to fear? A cannon toting, demigryph riding, light council empire army?

I tell you: the new DE are back at where they started 4 editions in the past: Fluffy, interesting ... and mostly harmless. A bit like orcs without war machines and manglers. :)

Give me silverhelms, frosthearts, eagles, dragon princes, the best magic item collection in the game any day of the week over them.


Regarding the Hydra:
Quote:
I agree with what most of Hero said. I do have some concerns over the Hydra however. The fact that it lost its hatred and regen isn't such a massive nerf as far as we're concerned. For 180 points they still have a monster that can decimate one of our (non-PG) infantry units if it gets to combat with enough wounds to not die straight away. It's still hard for us to kill in one turn of shooting, and it cant be wounded and left alone for infantry to finish off anymore as it's wounds come back.

If your whole army shoots at it, it might die, but those Witch Elves will be alive and well when they hit your lines. It has been nerfed, and we can deal with it, but it's still way too cheap for what it's capable of, and we have to be aware of that.

and
Quote:
Hydra is T5 with 6 Wounds? And sporting a 4+ AS with no Regen save. If your White Lions or Swordmasters can't dish out 6 Wounds on 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound (3+ in WL case) and it have a 6+ AS or No save against them, then your dice handed your opponent the game. I personally am not afraid of the Hydra. And will save my shooting for other targets.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:07 am
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It is always amusing how vastly different reactions to the same rules can be. :)

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:18 am
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Noble
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Yes indeed Bounce.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:27 am
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@Scyloc: Yeah, there are quite a bit of overreactions to the rumored DE, although I'm kinda biased so I'm not going to get into longer discussions with them about why I think so many of them are wrong (at least not before I have the book).

What is said about DE from a tournament perspective is close to my thoughts, and the new Hydra can be good if used properly. It has to be played a lot smarter though as it can't deal with the same things as before. It's much weaker on the offense and can die much much quicker in close combat than the previous version.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:28 am
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Setomidor wrote:
Jossy wrote:
I can tell you now reading from the book that the War Hydra and Khardribble (whatever) has unit type "monster" and there is no special rule at all printed in the bestiary, army list selection or summary called "monster & handler" or indeed anything like it.

It may be an oversight and get errata'd, but as the book stands now, no monster and handler


Yes, but are there actual handlers? Like riders of a Chariot?


NO

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:34 am
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Scyloc wrote:
Jossy, can you confirm that Masters and Dreadlords can still take a Dark Pegasus as mount? 25 slaves still?

And most importantly, can they still take a Sea Dragon Cloak as mundane equipment?

If you have the time, can you tell us about the Bloodwrack Throne and Medusa?


Yes the can both take Pegasus
Yes its fiddy point
yes they can take Dragon Cloaks
Bloodwrack throne seams pretty average
Medusa looks fun, but probably wont be in competitive builds

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:37 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

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Thanks again for the info! Slightly bummed about the Hydra and the Kharibhyss, with only LD6 they are gonna need a lot of babysitting as they can't even be trusted to redirect a charge on their own. For the Kharibhyss this might still be alright, the I4, S7 and very nice special rule (forcing reroll of LD-tests) are still tempting, but the hydra? No thanks.


Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:00 pm
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Hydras are different, yes.
Are they useless? No.

You can't commit it to combat too early or against the wrong opponent anymore but that's fine. Hydra can now shoot and harrass the enemy until the right time and its still cheap!

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:16 pm
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Noble
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I definately still think the new Hydras/Khariybdyss can have some uses. But we have to treat them differently than before, where they were mindless point and click units.

Now we have to treat them more like a Dragonlord with weak CC protection. Meaning we need to combo charge, for instance with a cheap chariot in the front of the enemy unit to allow the Hydra/Kharidbyss to be placed, so it faces a minimum # of return attacks. Or alongside an Executioner unit..

The key thing is to make the fragile monsters face few return attacks.

Will it be more difficult than before? Yes.
Can we depend less on the new monsters than the old Hydra? Yes, definately.
Are they still usuable? Yes.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:28 pm
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Noble
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@Omnichron,

Yes im still looking for viable tournament builds. Just havnt found any i believe in yet.

But playtesting will reveal much. So far im fearing we will be a mid low tier army with a very strong LD-bomb gimmick.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:30 pm
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