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The new executioner horde. 
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Warrior

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:16 pm
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It sounds like the executioner horde will be realy powerfull in the new book if all the rumors are true. High str and d3 wound striking at high initiative is gonna rape monstreus cav and monsters. They will have problems against hordes but the rest of the army should not have any problem with hordes of inf.

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Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:26 am
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Executioner

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:22 am
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Quite early to post some "tactics". We don't know if all the rumors are true especially the d3 wounds is far from being confirmed iirc. It's probably best to wait for the book being released first. Feel free to join the conversation in the rumor thread while waiting.


Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:43 am
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Assassin
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I don't buy the d3 wounds until I have the book in my hands. It would be great, sure, and with killing blow getting worse from erratum to erratum, I'd love to see it.

Still, I'm more worries about the loss of rerolls for them. They were a reliable destructive force with CoB buffed attacksa ans hatred, both will be gone, as it seems (I can't see me putting the Cauldron into the Execs, frenzy is pretty terrible for costly units, don't want them to run all over the place).


Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:16 pm
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Dark Rider
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Also a lot is going to depend on how many points our new executioners cost. Right now they are already 5.5 Skaven Slaves each. With ASF, Cause D3 Wounds, and reroll 1's to wound it's very likely they will shoot right up to as many as 7 Skaven Slaves a model. That would make executioners a bit pricy point wise to horde.

Still we'll see when the new book comes out... just one more week.

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Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:57 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Waiting to see what characters can go in them. If I can get a defensive fighty lord in there, I'll probably play all my exies and a few more. If its still only Hags and Assassins, I'll probably go with the big monster mash instead.

I'm highly doubtful that d3 wounds is anything except a wishlist because it will make them ridicu-good vs MI and monsters... and surely that's not what Executioners are all about (as nice as it would be to have). They are temple guards and ...executioners... d3 wounds would have been far more fitting for White Lions since they are actual monster hunters, and they didn't get it.

Surprised that the Medusa is only rumoured to get killing blow, though. I would have expected her to get HKB since the Cockatrice did.

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Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:25 pm
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Sulla wrote:
Surprised that the Medusa is only rumoured to get killing blow, though. I would have expected her to get HKB since the Cockatrice did.


IMHO GW is faaar too uptight on handing out HKB. KB is almost ridiculous in usefulness right now and every single time they do give a model HKB nowadays, they turn it into a *huge* (aka useless) gamble which means it's just a gimmick you wouldn't bother to buy/use anyway. The Medusa would have been a good opportunity for putting some HKB into play, but alas, as soon as you saddle up and hide on your demigryphons back, there's no way you're gaze's gonna cross that of the Medusa slithering over there.. directly at your height... in your line of sight...


Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:45 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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OK, so no d3 wounds. No stubborn anymore. I'm liking 10's of executioners hanging around to hit anything hard that ties up our witches/corsairs far more than the idea of big unwieldy units.

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Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:57 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

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Sulla wrote:
OK, so no d3 wounds. No stubborn anymore. I'm liking 10's of executioners hanging around to hit anything hard that ties up our witches/corsairs far more than the idea of big unwieldy units.


Agreed, the MSU approach seems quite reasonable. Or rather, the big Horde approach sounds very expensive and unwieldy. It depends a bit on the wording of CoB, if the 5++ is for Witches only or also for Execs (I've seen both in rumors).


Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:01 am
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Assassin
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While MSU is obviously only possible thanks to loss of hatred and gain of ASF it also means that they are pretty susceptible to bad dice rolls - that's a problem they haven't had before. Sure, they will gut 5man Knight units and the like, but every with lower AS will be killed more easily (and reliably) by BG, Witch or Sister units.

I'll have to see what the Cauldron bound spell is like. Might be useful to put such small Exec units in frenzy.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:24 am
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Black Guard

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:26 pm
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New Exes horde should benefit from Tullaris making them frenzied; and from the cauldron blessing of + 2A.
Being with the cauldron, apparently, gives them a 6+ ward save.

With a 10 frontage with champ and Tullaris, with said blessing, 30 Exes should deliver 62 Str. 6 hits.
I wouldn't worry too much about lost rerolls.

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Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:26 am
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Noble
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Frenzied Executioners -- No thx, unless we can control when to give the buff.

An Executioner horde will probably be a stable of many DE builds (unless you go evasive), since its one of the few ways we can deal with 1+ as and the like.

However, we need to keep in mind, that when the euphoria about having ASF dies down, we wake up to a reality, where our Executioners have lost their reroll to hit.

I am sure Daeron can educate us on how this makes our Executioners much more prone to fluffing dice rolls. (Besides losing the obvious 50% damage increase the rerolls gave us).

HE have been testing our WLs since they received their new book, and they have been unimpressed so far. Time will tell what 1 pt cheaper KB executioners withour 3+ as vs missiles and no stubborn will achieve in the DE army.

But im sure we will see a lot of Executioners in DE armies in the future, as the ASF buffs makes them much more usefull.

Previsously we had to dedicate 650+ points to make them effective (Horde + CoB), now we can use small teams of 10 and expect a solid return of investment.
KB still has some use, when facing for instance Empire and VC.

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Interesting threads from the past:
BG Executioners Axe List:
Facing Ogres:
Facing WoC:
Effective use of Magic
Tips Using Harpies:


Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:36 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

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Scyloc wrote:
HE have been testing our WLs since they received their new book, and they have been unimpressed so far. Time will tell what 1 pt cheaper KB executioners withour 3+ as vs missiles and no stubborn will achieve in the DE army.


I agree with everything you say apart from the above, the WLs are still a very fundamental part of most HE armies. Of course, the BoWD gives them a considerable edge to keep them alive, but we get a few extra bodies in instead which might mitigate the differences somewhat. 20 WLs with BoWD is the same cost as 26 Executioners and at least when pitching those against each other the Execs come out winning every time.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:48 am
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
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Scyloc wrote:
Frenzied Executioners -- No thx, unless we can control when to give the buff.


That's what harpies are for. Park a unit in front of the Executioners and Frenzy isn't such a big deal. And as a bonus, you get hard cover against all conventional shooting attacks!

This isn't a new thing we've had to deal with. Managing Frenzy is second nature to anyone who uses Witches regularly. A bit of care is all that is needed.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:33 pm
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Noble
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Vulcan, the problem isnt having the frenzied unit charging off, but to deal with redirector units redirecting you at 90 degree angle.

Placing harpies in front of your own unit doesnt not fix that, and furthermore it will inflict a myriad of other problems (especially now that harpies cause panic to other DE units).

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Interesting threads from the past:
BG Executioners Axe List:
Facing Ogres:
Facing WoC:
Effective use of Magic
Tips Using Harpies:


Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:48 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Ming wrote:
New Exes horde should benefit from Tullaris making them frenzied; and from the cauldron blessing of + 2A.
Being with the cauldron, apparently, gives them a 6+ ward save.

With a 10 frontage with champ and Tullaris, with said blessing, 30 Exes should deliver 62 Str. 6 hits.
I wouldn't worry too much about lost rerolls.
So your plan is 30 exies, a character and a cauldron + character in the unit? That's a lot of eggs in one basket.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:54 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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To be honest, the cauldron sounds like one of the weaker choices in our list... yes it can do a lot for a unit, but you have to go into Deathstar(ish) mode to do it, and the chariot can be killed really quickly. For one cauldron, you can get 25 executioners, and I bet that two executioner units will do better with one with the cauldron in it.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:22 am
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Noble

Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:48 pm
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Omnichron wrote:
To be honest, the cauldron sounds like one of the weaker choices in our list... yes it can do a lot for a unit, but you have to go into Deathstar(ish) mode to do it, and the chariot can be killed really quickly. For one cauldron, you can get 25 executioners, and I bet that two executioner units will do better with one with the cauldron in it.


We lost alot of our save Rolls in the Army. I really dont know how to Build one now. I miss the Cauldron Buffs. And im not sure why i should take the Medusa Altar.
I really think that the Lore of Life is a very good option for Darkelves now. I will help to keep our "No Saves Monsters" and our "We have no Cauldron saves anymore Executioners" alife.


Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:10 am
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Black Guard

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:26 pm
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Quote:
So your plan is 30 exies, a character and a cauldron + character in the unit? That's a lot of eggs in one basket.


I still have no plans :)
It's a bit early.

My idea would be to keep Exes horde within 6" of Witches with Cauldron.
If I understand the rumors correctly, super frenzy is a blessing you can bestow even to units not running with the cauldron.

All I need is Tullaris.
Witches with cauldron seems a good combo to me. And fluffy for a Khainite army theme.

An all frenzied army?
Why not? Khornates can live with it.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:27 am
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Malekith's Best Friend

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My plan is to skip the cauldron and bring 30-ish Executioners with the Ring of Hotek. They will suffer against template shooting such as the Hell cannon, but that's just means those kind of targets are high priority :)


Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:58 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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From what I can see the Cauldron is rather wasted on the executioners. Gives them re rolls to wound but they get re roll 1's to wound without it and at S6 they usually would wound on 2's anyway. Which is unfortunate as a Khainite army should have both units. I think alone a block of 30 Executioners will be nasty. No re rolls to hit but they still have good WS and their to wound is virtually a certainty. Units like Grave Guard will be highly jealous.

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Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:24 am
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