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Warlocks are Awesome, but are they Usable? 
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Noble

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"Warlocks are fast cavalry in the rare slot with stats of 544431528. They are [12 1/2 Skaven Slaves] points each and ride Dark Steeds. They are only equipped with hand weapons, but have a 4+ ward save except for wounds caused by models with the mark of Slaanesh or are daemons of Slaanesh. They are considered to be a level 2 wizard which is used like Pink Horrors. They get +1 to cast for each extra rank except for the first, to a maximum of +3. They know two spells. One is doombolt from the Dark Elves deck, and the other is Soulblight from the lore of Death!"

I really love the fluff of the unit that is a level 2 wizard! +1 to cast per rank!! Awesome!!!!

Are they usable though? Can you take them in single rank for 125 points, or do you need a big block of 375+ points to make them work?

------------------

Edit: after thinking about it for a few minutes, a couple units of 5 would be an awesome mobile threat. Definitelly will be investing in some and seeing how they work on the field.

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Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:10 pm
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Dragon Lord
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They were rumored to be bound spells, alas they are not. This changes their usability
As bound spells, they would be great taken in multiple units (and way too powerful)
Casting like a wizard I will see them running in one small to medium unit (no larger than 10 models)

They get +2 to cast, but no Hekarti's blessing so they will need to roll a 10 for a Doombolt (average on 3 dice), so it's rather tricky to cast.
What is amazing is their ability to cast Soulblight as fast cavalry, they can get where needed, cast soulblight and then flee as charge reaction!

They will be contesting for Power dice though, so if you go with level 4 and level 2, you might be struggling for power dice (so take the dagger!)

Then on top of that. 2 S4 attacks each plus horsie! Not only they cost barely more than old dark riders per unit of 5 but they also serve as kick ass fast cavalry clearing out war machines and chaff with their 4++

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Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:28 pm
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Noble

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@Dalamar: As always thank you for the insightful reply, it is very much appreciated.

Since they are not bound spells, does that mean that if you had two units each would only get one spell?!? Or that each seperate spell can only be cast once each turn but by different units on subsequent turns (so you cuold have two utility units of 5 to both Doombolt and warmachine hunt)?

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Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:36 pm
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Dragon Lord
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Each unit would get all their spells. The limitation of one spell per wizard is when you roll them randomly.
Warlocks don't have a choice.

So if you field 3 units of Warlocks, you have 3 Doombolts and 3 Soulblights... and they will eat up all your Power dice so you can spend hero and lord poitns on non-casters.

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Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:42 pm
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Even if they don't count as bound spell, they'll need something like the horrors in case of miscasts (2d6 S10 hits?), but that's alright I guess, if it happens, it happens.

The Doombolt will be seldomly used, I guess. Guess I will have one on my Sorc most of the time and +5 is preferable to +1/2 to casting value, but the Soulblight without Death Sorc/Spell choice is rather brilliant. Sure they compete for the PD, but the sheer potential is there. And they might as well be used instead (or in addition to) of Dark Riders. 4++ is huge and they are even harder hitting than Dark Riders. And with, like Dalamar said, a reasonable price that's not entirely out of DR's spheres, you may as well sacrifice them if need be.

About the spell question: If you've got a single spell of a lore multiple times in your army because the spell is fixed, there is no limitation on your ability to cast it, so you may as well be able to cast two Soulblights (or three with a Death Sorc).

edit:

Dalamar wrote:
and they will eat up all your Power dice so you can spend hero and lord poitns on non-casters.


This is something I haven't even thought about yet, could make for some nice alternative builds from time to time, it's only the defensive problem that remains (dispelling without a lvl4 sorc sucks badly).


Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:44 pm
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I'm really excited about these.
My thoughts as I lie in bed last night was to use 9 plus a high sorceress. The sorceress as the Tome and Dark magic, she will be choosing soul stealer and taking POD. She will also have a 4+ ward and some magic resistance. the MR boosts the units save and makes them quite hardy. and helps with miscast damage reduction/ She looks to cast soul stealer too gain wounds and then POD to boost her unit to 15 S5 attacks for later in the game. Plus its an awsome chaff clearing fast unit chuck out tonnes of short ranged magic. Love it.

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Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:47 pm
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Or Soulblight and Word of Pain, for -1+d3S and -1T :D

We're going to feel shortage of power dice a lot...

We don't know what sort of miscast they will have. Keep in mind horrors are large units that can take the 2d6 hits, they can also generate any spell from the Tzeentch lore and it's not uncommon to see them casting the Infernal Gateway.

I think d6 hits for Warlocks will be more reasonable (and miscasting on 3 dice is not that common)

Keep in mind, putting sorceress in the unit will make them no longer Fast Cavalry

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Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:49 pm
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Yeah, the miscasts will *probably* not end up as bad as the horrors, but still, as with small horror units I expect small Warlock units to be done after a miscast. Anything under d6 S5+ hits would be unreasonable and potentially wipes them clear of the board (don't think their wards will be allowed, Horrors don't have such luck either).

But whatever it may be, I don't think they will be casting with more than 3d often, so it's not really a problem. Did I already mention that I'm pretty happy that our RBTs got thrown out of Rare?^^


Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:00 pm
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I havent played a game of 8th yet, why does putting sorceress in the unit take away the fast cav rule? if you give her a steed and dont give it barding, does it not count as fast cav?


Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:30 pm
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You've gotta have the Specific Rule "Fast Cavalry". Add a model without the rule to a unit of Fast Cavalry and the unit will use it. Barding/Armor etc. doesn't have to do anything with it anymore.


Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:31 pm
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They will see a place in my list no matter how many mages I run. the ability to have that guarantee soulblight in your pocket when rolling for spells is quite handy. plus, if one of your wizards is a death mage, if you roll up soul blight that means, from my understanding of the rules, that is a free pick of spells from death as you can't have the same spell minus signature (minus of course what they come with)

They will be more of a mind frack than anything. Imagine the face when your opponent has to either stop Word of pain, etc but fear that everyone of their units within 24" of the very fast moving warlocks get -1 str and toughness.


Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:37 pm
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That's right, if you take a Death wizard alongside Warlocks and roll a second Soulblight on her, you get to pick any spell, you still have to roll that soulblight though.

I have a sense that Dark Elf magic will be very tricky. we have a handful of really expensive spells to cast, but if chosen right, there will be no spell that your opponent wants to let through.

Word of Pain? - bad
Black Horror? - bad
Shroud of Despair? - bad
Soulblight? - bad
Doombolt? - bad
Bladewind (target dependant)? - bad

I love how not all spells are all about damage, the spells messing with your opponent's mind are so much better.

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Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:48 pm
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Dalamar wrote:
That's right, if you take a Death wizard alongside Warlocks and roll a second Soulblight on her, you get to pick any spell, you still have to roll that soulblight though.


Could I get a rule quote on this one? From my understanding "bought spells" or "automatically granted" ones don't allow you do reroll your spell choice (or choose another spell directly), since you are explicitely allowed to have it more than once in your army in this case (p490 in my German RB, sry, don't have the English one at hand). If there's no Erratum on this or anything, I don't see you get a "freebie" if you roll another Soulblight.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:18 am
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Dragon Lord
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Actually after re-reading the rule, you're correct Trax.

You can have Soulblight on a single sorceress and on the Warlocks at the same time.

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Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:30 am
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Dalamar wrote:
Actually after re-reading the rule, you're correct Trax.

You can have Soulblight on a single sorceress and on the Warlocks at the same time.


Eh either way, that's even more soul blights. Opponent can't stop all of them :)


Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:47 am
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Well, with two units of them you're pretty well decked out already, I guess^^ It's more of a "disadvantage" this way I guess, I'd like to turn the Sorc's Soulblight into another spell most likely. Not that I'm complaining, mind you. I often take Death magic with hope's to get a single sniper spell and Soulblight and then get two sniper spells, so I'm pretty happy with the current/upcoming situation.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:02 am
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You need to remember a few things.

@ 125 points for a unit of 5, you get fast cavalry. They are only 25 more than Dark Riders with RXB.
They come out of rare, which has very little competition now as far a desirable units go.
You also get a 4+ ward save, which includes defence from miscasting, and in addition provides additional channels.
you will miss out on 10 crossbow shots, but I think that is more than made up for by a Doombolt or Soulblight...

And when you take two units of 5, add in some RBT's, another Sorcerer or two with doombolt, and some of those new chariots... That is a lot of ranged firepower!

Quite easily one of the best units in the book IMO

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Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:16 am
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And they really are the superior chaff clearers, 2A is (obviously) way better than a single attack. They don't rely on the charge and while the Dark Riders can be played with 4+ AS, a ward save is, of course, on a whole other level. Haven't even thought of the additional channelings you get, that's right. More niceties. Looks almost too good :P

160 for a Kharybdiss (was it?), maybe 10, 12, 14 sisters in 2 small units, leaves you well enough points for Warlocks - if you even want the other units, that is.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:29 am
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Dalamar wrote:
Keep in mind, putting sorceress in the unit will make them no longer Fast Cavalry


Part of me hopes that darksteeds will get the fast cav rule seeing as they can't take barding.

However even if this isn't the case I think M9 will be fine for a non shooting ranked unit. Also, the Warlocks are one unit that will really benefit from POD spells plus one strength. 15 S5 attacks is really nice. That said corsairs or witches hordes will benefit hugely too. But if your not taking the sacrificial dagger then a unit with a 4+ ward is a handy place tokeep a lvl 4 who might want to throw lots of dice at spells.

I was just reading the rules for the black amulet, and I think that it will be on my lvl 4. With the tome to choose soul stealer she can become a monster in a challenge with a DP or chaos lord. Namely she has 10 wounds he will hit and wound her easily, you have a good chance of doing 3 wounds with the amulet and she will survive. I like this a lot. I like this with a peg noble running the cloak and ogre blade for monster / monsterous cav and infantry hunting. That would give me two really dynamic lords with huge amounts of tricksy options and flexibility.

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Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:34 am
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Any unit will greatly benefit from PoD, it's the sorceress that might be in trouble.
S5 BG?
S7 CoKs with S5 mounts?
S7 Execs?
S4 Witches? (thought sorceress will likely get stabbed by them ;) )

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Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:51 am
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I kinda like Calisson's idea of putting her in some CoK. Tome and Amulet. Vicious. But that's still a stupid mage and I'm not feeling comfortable with it...


Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:11 am
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I can tell you now I plan on taking two Sorceresses, one level 2 and another level 4. The level 2 has only one job - to stab people. She's there to provide power dice for the level 4. Statistically she'll die in 64% of my games which I consider to be very acceptable. That will enable my level 4 of life to keep my troops tough and regrowed while pinging lost wounds back onto my High Beastmaster's manticore and on my hydras (and RBTs). And hopefully flush enemies down the Dwellers Below toilet.

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Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:24 am
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Dalamar wrote:
They were rumored to be bound spells, alas they are not. This changes their usability
Where does this information come from?

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Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:07 am
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I second Calisson's question on the info's point of origin.

However, if these are true then Warlocks would be quite a unit! :D

- Loran

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Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:00 am
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It's pretty certain. The source *does* have the AB in his hands (he put photos online) and so there's no reason not to believe anything he's said - and he said they'd work like horrors which are no bound spells. But he didn't went into great detail on their casting (and miscasting) abilities beyond "lvl 2, those spells, +1 to cast, +1/2 for rank 1/2", so we'll have to wait.

But even with the worst case in mind (them not working like bound spells), they are still awesome and until further scrutiny my most favorite thing of the new book so far.


Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:32 am
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