Dreadspears

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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highasself
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Dreadspears

Post by highasself »

Are they viable? I have a ton of them so I'd like to incorporate them into my list. Is there ever a situation where I'd use 40 of them as opposed to the 40 corsairs or 20 darkshards I have (or witchelves that I'll most likely end up proxying them as)?

Input greatly appreciated.
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Amboadine
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Re: Dreadspears

Post by Amboadine »

Honestly in a competitive list, I can't think of much use for 40 spears over any of the other core units. Unfortunately they are just not as good as the other options available. In a friendly game they would make a good basis for a city guard list however.

And welcome to the forum.
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Calisson
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Re: Dreadspears

Post by Calisson »

Welcome highasself indeed to D.net :)

Spearelves aren't bad per se and many other armies would apreciate to get such stats as core troops.
It is just that for most roles, other core troops are just better.

What spearmen do better than other troops is to be cheaper (swordsmen are same cost, though, but get parry save) and to be dangerous in the front side.
That's all.

There are some uses that would make good benefit of these two properties.

1. Small expandable unit
70 pts is a very expandable unit.
Sure, swords are very slightly better for same cost, as they get the parry save while spears have no use for their additional fighting rank, unless they go 3 wide in which case they lose their width of attacks and their rank. Now, the parry save will hardly ever save the unit, it gets significant only in large amounts.
So spears can be considered as good as swords, and better than anything else as being expandable.
Now, being expandable will win you no battle. And they are much less agile than other expandable units, such as harpies or medusa or naked DR.

2. Sacrificial unit.
A dagger-happy sorceress needs fuel, a lot of fuel. Spearmen provide that for a reasonable cost.
They are cheaper than pretty much anything else, save swords.
Still, in that other role, they have a babysitting role, for which swords are slightly better, corsairs are much better, and BG are excellent.

3. Steadfast unit
Here is the best use of spearmen.
Indeed, in order to get the longest lasting steadfast, you need a very large number of models.
Spearmen are as good as swords, but they fight better in the front, where the opponent is supposed to be.
A long bus of spearmen is a welcome addition to a fighting army which wants not to be stuck in long steadfast combats.
And they are doing that with a nice Ld8, already better than most opponent competitors in that role.

4. Über-horde
If you have really many of them, let's say 50 or 60, you can horde them.
Now, we're talking about 41 attacks frontally. That's... a lot. Even at a mere S3, it will hurt anything.
Note that adding a 6 wheel chariot to any large unit helps to make a horde, too... but at a hefty cost. BwS lowers the cost of a BG or SoS hordes but that's unusual.

5. Switching between horde & bus
There are two good uses for spearmen.
Steadfast bus, and large horde.
For either use, they better be 50 to 60 of them, FC.
The good point is that you can switch from horde to bus (except maybe if already in combat) or reversely, according to needs.
A bonus is that 5 wide movement trays will allow you to bus them, and placing two trays side by side, to horde them.

6. Conclusion
I'd recommend taking a single unit of 60, FC.
This unit would be the backbone of the army, providing steadfast, but no muscle.
Make your army around it.
In case you face the appropriate army, you can select to horde it.
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Aurelius
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Re: Dreadspears

Post by Aurelius »

60 Spearmen sounds nasty, especially with a Witch Elf + CoB alongside it.
Askador
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Re: Dreadspears

Post by Askador »

Well as i meet Highelf Spear Horde many times i have to say that Witches do much better then them. They can shred them in one or two turns sometimes. But they have to have a CoB inside and they are more expensive.
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Saintofm
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Re: Dreadspears

Post by Saintofm »

Aurelius wrote:60 Spearmen sounds nasty, especially with a Witch Elf + CoB alongside it.



It gets better.

Shrines and couldrons can be feilded within a unit due to "Will of the Gods," which gives the uber chariot more protection and the unit all the benefits.

As for the core in general?

Corsairs are all offence, and besicly the best at laying seige with their cloaks.

Witch elves have less defences but go all out in the attack.

Spearmen used to be the more defensive unit but now they are they "lets cheap mass of attacks." I also am still a fan of them.

Dark Shards are death from affare and one of the better shooty units in the game.

Swordsmen have some defencivness, but still just as offensive as the other.

Its all a matter of taste at this point.
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Askador
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Re: Dreadspears

Post by Askador »

Swordman have the same profile and weapon options as Darkshards. Just without the shooting and cheaper.

Corsairs.. well i never had luck with them. Lots of attacks, alot hits.. rare wounds and almost no kills. They do good against Skaven slaves and Zombies :)

Spearman in mass can be good. lots of attacks when they get attaked.

Witches have an option for a 5++ and can get the Razor Banner. You have to take care of the frenzy but they have an massive killing potential.

Its just against Witches and Dark Riders the rest of the core is well .. just fluff in my opinion. Darkshards aside because of the different role.
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lil' fisty
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Re: Dreadspears

Post by lil' fisty »

What about a plain unit of 15 with no command? They could back up shade units or monsters perhaps while still being sacrificial.
dms505
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Re: Dreadspears

Post by dms505 »

A small unit could hold up and/or defeat some chaff units or even light cavalry but they will be outmaneuvered. I've seen people use a unit of 15 for BT defense but still it's usually because they lack the models or points for something better suited like corsairs with hand bows. I have a unit of 60 spears that I have yet to use. I really want to try a massive hoard with a little backup like wildform and/or the cauldron buffs. I think they're just shy of being elite and ANY buff will push them over that line. Frenzy, Strength, Rerolls or debuffs on the enemy can do it.
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lil' fisty
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Re: Dreadspears

Post by lil' fisty »

I have tried to find a way to make a 2,000 list that works around a horde of 50 spears while having an assortment of buffs and opposing hexes from a few sources. The hard part is finding a way to put a few wizards outside of the horde and not be vulnerable. A dreadspears horde just get's too easy to scoop up points. Magic resistance and the ironcurse icon are something I never leave without so I throw in a level 1 beasts sorceress with it to start. For under 600 points you can still afford some other more reasonable choices to keep the horde safe! haha
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