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Protecting a block of Black Guard 
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Black Guard
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Suppose for a moment I decided I wanted to play a game with Kouran and a block of 30 black guard. How would you suggest I go about protecting this unit? My goal for the unit would be to make a giant cockblock for the enemy to have to deal with and that can hold things in place for an entire game.

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Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:14 pm
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Well from personal experience, I can tell that a big unit with both the razor standard, Cauldron of Blood, a Level 4 Life Wizard and a BSB with ring of hotek is incredible tough.. But also very very expensive. :P

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Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:39 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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Boy am i glad you asked ! Lol

(excuse my spelling)

Well I have been playing my BG in a unit of 28 7x4 full cmd, razor stnd, and a level four Life with 4+ward and dsp sc. I love firstly, that they are not taken as often as other units, Because they get played against less people are less unsure of how deadly they can be. This unit can not only hold its enemies up but they will shred them too. I dont use magic resistance because I have the level 4 and dsp scroll. Kouran is really an unessicary points sink and making them unbreakable is not much better than they already are. But I like taking special characters also so..... why not!!!! I have been taking them with 10 knights and 30 witches. Now everyone knows what those two units do, and what they do well, which means they tend to get shot at first. But when my BG get into combat with 5-6 toughness and 2-3 attacks. +1 attacks cause tend to frenzy bomb my army with a death hag at the beggining of the game.

The key with BG is get them fighting and as quickly as possible they will pay for them selves in no time. But yes the biggest down side is it does take away from the other choices with its huge points sink which for you is 450 slaves ish.

but hey its really fun too !


Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:34 pm
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Killed by Khorne
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You could try an expendable screen of RhB Corsairs or Harpies in front of them?

Slappy666's approach of running them with other strong threats makes sense. For instance, CoB Witches and Executioners either side of a Lore of Life BG bunker is a strong battle line. Bloodwrack Shrine in the unit is another option as well.

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Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:01 pm
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Dark Rider
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T.D. wrote:
You could try an expendable screen of RhB Corsairs or Harpies in front of them?

this is not the first time I read about those "human" shields, and maybe I miss something.

they will get a -2 to be hit from the cover, but can you move or charge through you own units if you see your enemy?

since the charge move is after the charge you must remove those shield the turn before you engage enemy (so removing the shield) I'm I wrong?


Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:48 pm
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Miscast into the Warp
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They do need to be out the way. Your opponent also needs to clear them to get to your blocks. So it becomes a tactical chaff and movement battle. If you can work it, those corsairs will flee from the opponents charge. Fail it, leaving him nicely exposed for your own charge.
In many cases you will just be using them to block missiles, so could be angled to prevent targeting of missile and war machines but not blocking the way to units you want to engage and charge.
Of course this is easier said than done in some cases, especially if they are trying to do the same to you.

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Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:58 pm
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^^This.

Also, you can also charge the screen unit to its death in the turn before your main block sees combat (so it is best to have BSBs and Generals in the main line for this strategy to mitigate for panic). Your main unit will still take some heat, but less than it would have otherwise. Ideal is for the screen to charge the enemy missile unit but obviously circumstances vary wildly.

Obviously Witches excel at this particular suicide role ('tire strippers' as one D.net member calls it!), but have a greater tendency than Corsairs to get shot down.

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Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:25 pm
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Shade

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When I run my army based around my block of 24 BG I run what most of the above Dreadlords have mentioned.

Level 4 wizards with life
master w/bsb 1+rr as and s5
death hag w/CoB obsidian blade
24 BG

I know, it's a magnet, but it hits like a ton of bricks and doesn't move. If you are going to stick kouran in there, you don't need the bsb there. If you are using the unit mainly to hold the lines for your hard hitters to get in there, then you may not need the CoB either.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:39 am
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Bigboar wrote:
T.D. wrote:
You could try an expendable screen of RhB Corsairs or Harpies in front of them?

this is not the first time I read about those "human" shields, and maybe I miss something.

they will get a -2 to be hit from the cover, but can you move or charge through you own units if you see your enemy?

since the charge move is after the charge you must remove those shield the turn before you engage enemy (so removing the shield) I'm I wrong?


I have my Peg Master infront of my Witch/CoB block if i need to. It makes the Witches stop if they fail a frenzy test and protekts the CoB from cannons. If i want to charge with the Witches i charge with the Master first. Works for Harpys too. Just charge something to get them out of the way.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:03 am
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Malekith's Best Friend
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The more points in a unit the bigger a target it is. In my experience the best way to protect unit is to give my opponent a better target. Your opponent will try to kill something. so why give him an obvious target. When playing with the 7th ed book I ran a big unit of 27 exes, I would put a 10CoK with hydra banner bsb, my opponents were so occupied with killing the CoK's, that the exes ripped them apart.

In other words, if you want 30 BG, run 30 BG. Then give you opponent an more obvious target like Exes, or better yet Witches as they are core, stick a CoB in there, and possibly something else, shove it in you opponents face, and as he deals with it, brake him with your BG.

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Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:22 pm
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Shade

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The only problem is that a block of BG is pretty expensive. What are you going to take the focus away with? It still attracts low strength shooting because their save is crap. They aren't cheap, is the main problem and they do take up a good portion of points. The way I look at BG/CoK's/Exectioneers is that you go for one of them and the use other units to help that main unit out.

You may be able to divert some attention away from them if you took witches as your core and stuck a CoB in there.


Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:23 am
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An entirely different matter that is worth noting. For simplicitys sake, let us imagine the following.

A big horde of orcs with bows. 5" In front of them, 5 rhb corsairs. Exactly 1" behind your corsairs, is your BG block. They have been under cover for the entire match forward thanks to the corsair human shield, and the corsairs have been reduced to 5 models from 10 models. Ideally you want to charge with your BG block without exposing them to a turn of shooting. Not a problem!

1. Declare a charge with your black guard to the savage orcs. Likely he will stand and shoot, but you are in hard cover so shouldnt lose too much. This is not an illegal charge, since technically the corsairs could also charge the savage orcs. Whether you declare that charge at a later point determines if your BG charge is succesful or not!

2. Also declare a charge with your corsairs on the savage orcs. Opponent cant stand and shoot this, so must either stand, or flee.

3. Resolve charges. First, move corsairs in, wheeling as much as you can to one side. Next, move BG in, wheeling as much as you can to the other side. Note that you must maximise models in B2B. In either case the end result is the same. You get your charge through, and nobody shot your BG except through hard cover.

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Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:15 pm
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Dark Rider
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that's interesting, you can even start with a 3 men wide formation for your corsairs, you will only shoot with 6 rhb but will have more contacts for your bgs.

what about using a peg master to screen them? I'm afraid you don't have any cover since you don't hide most of them cause true LoS, (most of pegs models are actually flying) I'm wrong?


Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:34 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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Bigboar wrote:
that's interesting, you can even start with a 3 men wide formation for your corsairs, you will only shoot with 6 rhb but will have more contacts for your bgs.

what about using a peg master to screen them? I'm afraid you don't have any cover since you don't hide most of them cause true LoS, (most of pegs models are actually flying) I'm wrong?


Your corsairs need to be at least half as wide as the BG in order to conceal more than 50% of the BG models, or else no cover at all.

A flying unit starts and ends every movement phase on the ground. So a pegmaster would give cover - but it is unlikely he would obscure more than 50% of the black guard. In addition, why expose your pegmaster? 30 shots and you risk taking a wound on him, or even worse they could simply charge you and break you on combat res (I overlooked 3 dwarf quarellers who rear charged my pegmaster - I killed 2 of them, he did nothing to me, but won with CR and I fled and was run down! ;) )

I much prefer harpies (can make a flying charge over the unit intended for your BG) or corsairs (reasonably high armor save for an elf foot slogger!) as living screens.

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Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:12 pm
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Dark Rider
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with a cot and a 1+ armour the peg is well protected, the problem is most of pegasi models are flying so even two of them can't hide half an infatry block. well maybe if you have a pegasus model flying over some ruins or trees you can :D


Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:01 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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high priority targets
1. Warlocks
2. exes
3. CoK
4. big monsters

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Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:04 am
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If you make the corsair elven shield wall 10 files x 1 rank, it will produce holes in the enemy shooting phase -- assuming he targets them. As the sides of this 10 file and one rank unit (horde size) shield wall shrinks in "his" shooting and magic phases, holes will open up in "your" charge sub-phase.

This elven wall is not a bad place to put defensive DL with crown of command.

Remember, that if you run a BWS or CoB (Chariot) in the unit, you can charge out of the unit with it. Say through the holes made by the whittled elven shield wall.


Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:07 pm
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A manticore master is the best distraction I would say. Opponents will most likely arrogantly mock the manticore for it's poor survivability, then shoot it it to death. Black Gaurd survive. Mission accomplished!


Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:56 am
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I tried the 17 BG and a SS Life sitting beside 28 witches with Cauldron and it destroyed an Ogre deathstar second turn. All I had up was +2T. My opponent conceded. The deathstar even had +1T and Regen. . . Yea. . . that just happened. Throwing even 1 buff of any kind on BG makes them sick nasty.

Both times I tried the SS Life in there I didn't get regrowth but I didn't need it really if I had +T or regen. Still sucks using Life when you almost have to give up 1 slot to Throne.

I used a medusa as a screener. An ogre unit 3 across doesn't like to charge her because of almost automatic 3 wounds before combat starts. But if they don't she can just shoot at them and their low initiative until they HAVE to charge her. She only did about 4 wounds that game but kept a 9 man ogre unit at bay for a couple of turns. Easily worth 90 pt.


Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:07 pm
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