Executioner Optimization
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
Executioner Optimization
Okay guys, a question for all the Dreadlords on the forum regarding Execs.
I'm sure everyone here knows the advantages and disadvantages of taking a unit of these guys.
S6 attacks obviously rock, but the trade-off is they lose ASF and hit at Init. order.
LD9 is solid, so these guys can generally be counted on to stick as long as they don't get thumped too hard in combat.
WS5 is another boon, as they hit most r&f troops on a 3, and then go on to wound on a 2 with re-rollable 1's.
The drawbacks are also pretty straightforward. T3 with a 5-up armor save means these guys are about as resilient as a Kleenex.
So, what is the best way to make these guys stand up to BS shooting and CC? Is it even possible?
The CoB seems like possibility, but if you're running a Cauldron, it seems like a waste not to stick it in a horde of witches. Not sure it's worth the cost for a 6+ ward anyway.
Apart from this, can anyone think of any Lord/Hero choice, Magic Lore, BSB/Standard, and/or magic item effect(s) that would synergize in such a way so as to either mitigate some of their weaknesses or supercharge their strengths.
I'm still relatively new to WHFB and am just looking for some insight from the Druchii experts that reside here.
Any suggestions, however off-the-wall, are certainly welcome. Let me know what you can come up with!
I'm sure everyone here knows the advantages and disadvantages of taking a unit of these guys.
S6 attacks obviously rock, but the trade-off is they lose ASF and hit at Init. order.
LD9 is solid, so these guys can generally be counted on to stick as long as they don't get thumped too hard in combat.
WS5 is another boon, as they hit most r&f troops on a 3, and then go on to wound on a 2 with re-rollable 1's.
The drawbacks are also pretty straightforward. T3 with a 5-up armor save means these guys are about as resilient as a Kleenex.
So, what is the best way to make these guys stand up to BS shooting and CC? Is it even possible?
The CoB seems like possibility, but if you're running a Cauldron, it seems like a waste not to stick it in a horde of witches. Not sure it's worth the cost for a 6+ ward anyway.
Apart from this, can anyone think of any Lord/Hero choice, Magic Lore, BSB/Standard, and/or magic item effect(s) that would synergize in such a way so as to either mitigate some of their weaknesses or supercharge their strengths.
I'm still relatively new to WHFB and am just looking for some insight from the Druchii experts that reside here.
Any suggestions, however off-the-wall, are certainly welcome. Let me know what you can come up with!
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Re: Executioner Optimization
Vs Shooting
You could try running 10 Corsairs with RhB in front of them as a screen (or harpies, which can charge out of the way).
Otherwise its a case of the usual Dark Elf approach of using your fast elements to take out his warmachines, and attacking with a range of threats at once i.e. Witches, Execs, Hydra; difficult to take them all out.
In H-t-h
They don't need a lot of support, but are better off against things where their S6 and Kb will count. Witches/Corsairs go for cheap hordes, Execs do the heavy lifting. A nearby Cauldron, a Bloodwrack Shrine in the unit (see Dalamars Two Towers threads), or a Death Hag w Witchbrew (or Tullaris) can all add to their CC power.
You could try running 10 Corsairs with RhB in front of them as a screen (or harpies, which can charge out of the way).
Otherwise its a case of the usual Dark Elf approach of using your fast elements to take out his warmachines, and attacking with a range of threats at once i.e. Witches, Execs, Hydra; difficult to take them all out.
In H-t-h
They don't need a lot of support, but are better off against things where their S6 and Kb will count. Witches/Corsairs go for cheap hordes, Execs do the heavy lifting. A nearby Cauldron, a Bloodwrack Shrine in the unit (see Dalamars Two Towers threads), or a Death Hag w Witchbrew (or Tullaris) can all add to their CC power.
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- direweasel
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Re: Executioner Optimization
I haven't used them yet in the new book, but I would have to think that if there's a good place to put an Assassin, executioners would have to be the place. They can make up for what the Executioners lack (rerolling hits, poison, fast attacks against anybody). But it is a lot of points and does nothing against the big weakness of shooting. As others have said, a screening unit would help with that. I'm not a fan of harpies, but a small unit of corsairs, shades, or dark riders could serve in that role.
Once they get into melee, they don't usually NEED help, but a chariot coming in on the flank of their opponent never hurts
Once they get into melee, they don't usually NEED help, but a chariot coming in on the flank of their opponent never hurts
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Re: Executioner Optimization
I should have asked my question differently I guess and I apologize. I was looking less for successful tactics and more wondering if there was anything I could do list-wise to get as much as possible out of these guys.
I have never run more than 10 execs in a game but I think they're worthy of being fielded in larger units. I'm just worried that if I do, the lion's share won't make it into combat. Or once they do, they need to fell the enemy unit to a man first turn or they'll get shredded.
I've considered Tullaris, but he seems over-priced at 155. For fewer points, you get the best feature of Tullaris in the form of a Death Hag. I know the Death Hag can't stand up to a stiff wind, but it's not like Tullaris is much better, right?
Can anyone weigh in on any magic lores, heroes, or magic banners/items that would mesh well with Execs?
Life and Light seem like possibilities.
What else can you guys come up with?
I have never run more than 10 execs in a game but I think they're worthy of being fielded in larger units. I'm just worried that if I do, the lion's share won't make it into combat. Or once they do, they need to fell the enemy unit to a man first turn or they'll get shredded.
I've considered Tullaris, but he seems over-priced at 155. For fewer points, you get the best feature of Tullaris in the form of a Death Hag. I know the Death Hag can't stand up to a stiff wind, but it's not like Tullaris is much better, right?
Can anyone weigh in on any magic lores, heroes, or magic banners/items that would mesh well with Execs?
Life and Light seem like possibilities.
What else can you guys come up with?
- T.D.
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Re: Executioner Optimization
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- direweasel
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Re: Executioner Optimization
Yeah, I take executioners in big units, usually 20-30. The idea is that you might lose some before they get to combat, but when they get there, they still have enough to do damage. As for banners, it depends on what you're up against. I like to give them eternal flame against armies with regenerating big stuff. Against others, swiftness for that extra inch of movement is nice.
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Re: Executioner Optimization
Lore of metal for that tasty +2 to their armour saves through glittering scales. 5+ armour save elves die quick and fast, but 3+ armour save elves live forever...
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Re: Executioner Optimization
I play a unit of 28 7x4 or a unit of 30 10x3.
I give them the Banner of Swiftness to help them get into combat sooner or surprise with a long charge. That way there are less chances for them to get shot at.
The most common thing that happens to this unit is that it gets shot/magic'd before it gets to do much. You can screen it in the front with your redirectors (I use 5 scouting shades). Also wise to protect the flanks as there are a lot of breath weapon attacks out there on flying characters or flying monsters. These guys absolutely die to breath weapons and you need to protect against it. The other thing I haven't tried but I plan on doing is using Lore of Metal and casting Glittering Robes on these guys. Can't guarantee you'll get the spell but when you do its a huge advantage.
Its funny I have had a lot of games where people freak out and reduce these guys quickly to around 10 models. And then I just move away for the rest of the game and preserve the points. Like anything, sometimes having a juicy target is just a magnet for all their fire while you beat them with other things.
I give them the Banner of Swiftness to help them get into combat sooner or surprise with a long charge. That way there are less chances for them to get shot at.
The most common thing that happens to this unit is that it gets shot/magic'd before it gets to do much. You can screen it in the front with your redirectors (I use 5 scouting shades). Also wise to protect the flanks as there are a lot of breath weapon attacks out there on flying characters or flying monsters. These guys absolutely die to breath weapons and you need to protect against it. The other thing I haven't tried but I plan on doing is using Lore of Metal and casting Glittering Robes on these guys. Can't guarantee you'll get the spell but when you do its a huge advantage.
Its funny I have had a lot of games where people freak out and reduce these guys quickly to around 10 models. And then I just move away for the rest of the game and preserve the points. Like anything, sometimes having a juicy target is just a magnet for all their fire while you beat them with other things.
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Re: Executioner Optimization
Red... wrote:Lore of metal for that tasty +2 to their armour saves through glittering scales. 5+ armour save elves die quick and fast, but 3+ armour save elves live forever...
Enchanted Blades from Lore of Metal also helps make up for the lack of rerolls to hit.
In general, Metal is a good lore if you are going heavy on the Execs.
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