Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Lion of flanders
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Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Lion of flanders »

In an army that has a high sorceress and a lvl 2, I'm thinking it would be better to run 10-12 warlocks as opposed to 2 units of 5-6

Any compelling reason to go with 2 units?
That's silly! Playin with little statues, pretendin' they're fightin'! Why not just round up a bunch of real goblins and lettem' whack it out?
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Khaleth Blackheart
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Khaleth Blackheart »

Are they going to be a bus for your sorceress'?

-If not then they give you the option of different angles and positions for their spells,
-You then get two channel attempts,
-Their footprints smaller so can get through and into smaller gaps,
-They can help out with two combats (if you run them as support chargers)
-And as points denial, if your opponent catches and destroys one unit, you've still preserved the points for one
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Akholrak
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Akholrak »

+1 to Khaleth's points. One other I would add is that you have two sets of their spells. Whilst this may not seem optimal due to a level 4 and a level 2, their mobility and range could lead to some favourable opportunities and then you have two chances to get the spell off if your opponent dispels the first time, for example.
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Kreol »

+1 to Khaleth arguments. I will add that I find out that when I have 2 units of warlocks, and I can change 2lv sorceress to additional hero on steed/pegasus. Second lore isn't needed when You can cast Doombolt twice or soulblight in important combat, and then death or shadow on 4lv Sorc. Additional hero gives You more mobility and power in CC.
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Dalamar
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Dalamar »

I think nobody mentioned a very important fact.
5 Dark Riders with musician and full gear cost 110 points
5 Warlocks cost 125 points

5 Warlocks pack a punch comparable to some heavy cavalry units (with a little bit magic help)

You might not have enough power dice to use all their spells all the time, but don't forget Warlocks are still a formidable close combat force that can get into a flank and really mess things up.

In one of my games against Ogres warlocks didn't cast a single spell. Instead they charged and ran down:
6 Leadbelchers
6 Ogre Bulls
Then they ran into a gutstar (they were chasing the guts... I needed to roll less than 11 to avoid running into the gutstar. I rolled 11...)
And tied it up for a full turn while the center field untangled itself from other combats (my witches were vulnerable to a flank charge if it wasn't for that lucky/unplanned overrun roll).

There's only one situation where two units of warlocks are undesirable:
If you're playing swedish comp. Just by including two small units of warlocks your composition score drops out of existence.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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Lion of flanders
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Lion of flanders »

Hey All:

Thanks for the excellent feedback! Fairly compelling arguments, I would say...particularly the fact that 2 units hammers you in Swedish comp. To me, that means that a bunch of smart players who spent a lot of time thinking about battlefield efficacy decided that 2 units is very strong generally speaking.

Being that I'm making a list for an "Open" mini tournament which runs the night before a "comp/friendly event", I'm looking to not hold back when it comes to comp. Might as well bring guns to a gun fight....it will remain to be seen if I can shoot straight! :D
That's silly! Playin with little statues, pretendin' they're fightin'! Why not just round up a bunch of real goblins and lettem' whack it out?
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Dalamar
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Dalamar »

Just don't send them against wrong targets. They will not deal with armor unless you really tool them up to do so with a handful of characters in the unit, maybe Beasts (Wildform) or Dark (Power of Darkness) magic to make them hit like super fast trucks.

Oh... and don't make them fight anything marked Slaanesh. They will kill a bunch but die even faster.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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Lion of flanders
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Lion of flanders »

Dalamar wrote:
Oh... and don't make them fight anything marked Slaanesh. They will kill a bunch but die even faster.


I figured that one out for myself :D

Thanks for the good advice. I get the chance to play only rarely, so I appreciate input from experienced players.
That's silly! Playin with little statues, pretendin' they're fightin'! Why not just round up a bunch of real goblins and lettem' whack it out?
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Akholrak
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Akholrak »

It's unlikely you will take many, if any, casualties against Slaanesh Marauder Horseman, Hellstriders and possibly even Seekers of Slaanesh, so you could consider putting them into those combats. Otherwise, stay well away. :)
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by marcopollo »

Akholrak wrote:It's unlikely you will take many, if any, casualties against Slaanesh Marauder Horseman, Hellstriders and possibly even Seekers of Slaanesh, so you could consider putting them into those combats. Otherwise, stay well away. :)


I've had slaanesh horsemen do a nmber on my warlocks. With throwing weapons they are quick to fire and will wakk up to 1inch, shoot and stand and shoot. No ward saves on those wounds. Then you fight them with depleted numbers.

So. Be careful about slaanesh.
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Dalamar
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Dalamar »

Run up, throw axes - 1.6 warlock dead
stand and shoot - 1.6 warlock dead.

2 warlocks get to combat - 2 Marauders dead

3 marauders hit back - 1.25 warlock dead

2 elven steeds at the same time with marauders - 0.3 marauder dead

3 marauder horses hit back - 0.375 warlock dead.

At the end of the combat
Warlocks killed 2.3 Marauders
Marauders killed 4.8 Warlocks.

I gave marauders Throwing Axes and Flails (not sure if they can take both)... I have no idea what points cost that would be.

But you can clearly see - don't attack slaanesh with warlocks. (unless it's something that won't shoot at you and you are sure will die before it gets to attack)
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by toots »

what do people do about having to flee with warlocks? they're fast cavalry so they can run away if they need to, but they won't be able to channel dispel dice until they rally, and even then they may not rally as they can't get a musician. what do people do about that? position them within 12" of the general? make a pegamaster the BSB to have a mobile re-roll bubble?
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Dalamar
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Dalamar »

They're fast cav, utilize this as much as possible. The Channel die is really only 1/6 chance, it's not worth more than redirecting an important enemy unit.

As for rallying, yeah they sometimes have issues but remember Ld8 is still above average. You can solve this by positioning them so they will flee *towards* your general or BSB, getting into Inspiring Presence/Hold your Ground! range.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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Akholrak
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Akholrak »

@Dalamar

Aren't Throwing Axes only 6" range? Would they get a S&S reaction against the Warlocks M9?

@Wroot

As Dalamar pointed out, see if you can get them to flee into your Inspiring Presence/Hold Your Ground bubble, greatly increasing their chance of rallying in your next turn.
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Akholrak
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Akholrak »

Just read the rulebook and you are correct. I'll concede that one to you, Dal. :)
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Olliewood »

A potential additional Vanguard move is always a plus in my opinion.
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Dyvim tvar »

Akholrak wrote:@Dalamar
Aren't Throwing Axes only 6" range? Would they get a S&S reaction against the Warlocks M9?


Whether or not a unit can stand and shoot has nothing to do with the range of the weapon being used. It depends only on the movement value of the charging unit and how far away the unit is when it begins its charge. If the charge starts outside the maximum range of the weapon being used, the units still bets to stand and shoot.
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Dalamar
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Re: Any reason to field 2 units of warlocks?

Post by Dalamar »

And thrown weapons are quick to fire so it doesn't matter.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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