Hi guys,

Pretty sure there was a thread on this but can't seem to find it :/

A little problem I had in my last game - switching back to using WE for a bit. Block of WE with CoB, Hag with WB. If the unit loses combat, it loses frenzy - what effect does WB have?

I wasn't sure if it's effects are completely lost or if it reduces it from +2 Attacks to just the +1. As in, the lose frenzy, but WB gives them frenzy again?

Anyone else had this?

Thanks in advance for any responses

It is difficult to make a complete analysis of this due to how witchbrew is written, but here goes.

Witchbrew states that the bearer and her unit gains the frenzy special rule. If the bearer loses combat, she loses the frenzy special rule as per the BRB. Hence, witchbrew is no longer in effect. This is personally how I would play it.

Others however might argue that the bearer of witchbrew just permanently "gains" the frenzy rule if she should ever lose it somehow. And for 30 points, that seems highly unlikely to be the intention of the item - permafrenzy for an entire unit for 30 points is a bargain, and I would neve rplay it like this. In addition, if the bearer of witchbrew dies, the frenzy buff is lost. Again, my opinion on how it should be played.

Right ok, yeah that was the way it went yesterday - some part of my mind seemed to remember a horrendously long thread on it so I thought it may be different

cheers mate

In the 7th edition WoC book, they had the addition of "and may never lose this frenzy" tacked on to the rules for one of its frenzy abilities, suggesting that GW believed that in order for frenzy to be permanently construed by an item or ability, you had to have this clause added. Of course, that was a long time ago, but I would certainly fall into the camp that believed with witch brew, frenzy is only conferred until the bearer loses combat, then its gone, until next game.

We FAQed at D.net that WB is lost too. That's not pure RAW, but that's reasonable.
See FAQ, top middle of your screen.
"The effects of Witchbrew are permanently lost if
the Death Hag is beaten in combat (whether on
her own or in a unit)."

A side question from this topic for clarification:

Brewhag's unit loses combat, thus super frenzy. Cauldron casts the frenzy spell on them, they get double frenzy back, yeah?

No. As the unit is seized to be Frenzied, when the Bound Spell from the Cauldron is cast, it effects the unit as if it wasn't already Frenzied, so they gain the Frenzy rule, but Witchbrew does not then apply to that, as Witchbrew has already been lost.

Curses! The red lemonade spills, agh!