Hellebron
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
Hellebron
Wow. First time I'd ever played with her and jeepers. +8 to dispel on her unit with a lvl 4 is huge. No one wants to go in there with the amount of hurt she puts out either besides karl franz ascendent she's the most brutal combat character in the game!
Who else loves Hellebron?
Who else loves Hellebron?
Re: Hellebron
+1
Yes, +8 to dispel in that combination is delicious, and her attacks pack an insane punch. If you put her in a high damage output unit then a lot of the time she can overcome the potential for enemy models to hit her back (her main weakness, given how paper frail she is) by the fact that, between her and her unit, all of the enemy are wiped out before they can hit back.
Her main downsides are: lack of maneuverability when in a unit, easy(ish) to kill if some enemy are left standing after her attack (or if she is in a challenge and the other model makes a lot of ward saves), and her absence of any magical offense (unlike her two closest counterparts, Malekith and Morathi, both of whom pack a nasty magic offensive punch). She also has frenzy, which can lead to her being frenzy baited if you are unlucky.
Yes, +8 to dispel in that combination is delicious, and her attacks pack an insane punch. If you put her in a high damage output unit then a lot of the time she can overcome the potential for enemy models to hit her back (her main weakness, given how paper frail she is) by the fact that, between her and her unit, all of the enemy are wiped out before they can hit back.
Her main downsides are: lack of maneuverability when in a unit, easy(ish) to kill if some enemy are left standing after her attack (or if she is in a challenge and the other model makes a lot of ward saves), and her absence of any magical offense (unlike her two closest counterparts, Malekith and Morathi, both of whom pack a nasty magic offensive punch). She also has frenzy, which can lead to her being frenzy baited if you are unlucky.
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Re: Hellebron
I must admit I have never considered the +4 to dispell attempts as an asset to her before as i never really imagined it being of any use. but this post has come at quite a timely moment for me as ai am currently conisering Hellebron since getting the model with my new cauldron of blood.
I have been musing on using her in a unit of 20 Executioners (7 wide ranked 3 deep) to give the executioners frenzy and and the unit some Strength 10 always strike first attacks. Its probably not the greatest combo (red has it right on her down sides) and definitely not an all conquering unit, but would make a very good second or third combat unit for my army (the most fun type of army for me is a few combat blocks and this tends to work within my gaming group).
I should imagine that this unit would put down quite a lot of threat (which may help dictate way the enemey plays), but in the context of a combat oriented force with multiple threats is unlikely to quickly neutralised. The low armour on the unit would make it vulnerable to shooting, but i can plan for that. magic can be countered more easily than shooting (kill the mages always my favourite), however its combat where it gets interesting. Going in Initiative order for the rest of the unit can be an issue but most people i know with ASF (high elf vermin) are probaly trying to avoid me anyways. I could pour more points into the unit and get an extra master or assassin in there to mitigate this, but this would reduce attacks for executioners, and push up the price which i dont want for a secondary comabat unit.
Either way this brief discussion has prompted me to give her a try in this unit
cheers
guys
I have been musing on using her in a unit of 20 Executioners (7 wide ranked 3 deep) to give the executioners frenzy and and the unit some Strength 10 always strike first attacks. Its probably not the greatest combo (red has it right on her down sides) and definitely not an all conquering unit, but would make a very good second or third combat unit for my army (the most fun type of army for me is a few combat blocks and this tends to work within my gaming group).
I should imagine that this unit would put down quite a lot of threat (which may help dictate way the enemey plays), but in the context of a combat oriented force with multiple threats is unlikely to quickly neutralised. The low armour on the unit would make it vulnerable to shooting, but i can plan for that. magic can be countered more easily than shooting (kill the mages always my favourite), however its combat where it gets interesting. Going in Initiative order for the rest of the unit can be an issue but most people i know with ASF (high elf vermin) are probaly trying to avoid me anyways. I could pour more points into the unit and get an extra master or assassin in there to mitigate this, but this would reduce attacks for executioners, and push up the price which i dont want for a secondary comabat unit.
Either way this brief discussion has prompted me to give her a try in this unit
cheers
guys
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- Executioner
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Re: Hellebron
I've only ever used her on the Cauldron, giving her 4++ but then that's the only way I take WE. Love using them, but I'd never field them without any protection.
I just think she kinda takes up a lot of points. Admittedly with 50% characters allowance that'll change but if you end up with 1000 pts of characters, in a 2k list that leaves very little for other units still she throws out a ridiculous amount of damage. Although -3 leadership on frenzy rolls isn't fun. I'd run a Hag BSB in the same unit with Razor Standard.
I just think she kinda takes up a lot of points. Admittedly with 50% characters allowance that'll change but if you end up with 1000 pts of characters, in a 2k list that leaves very little for other units still she throws out a ridiculous amount of damage. Although -3 leadership on frenzy rolls isn't fun. I'd run a Hag BSB in the same unit with Razor Standard.
Re: Hellebron
Personally I think I would only really use her on foot with some units I really don't use:
- Blackguards
- Sisters of Slaughter
- Corsairs
As for the Witch Elves with Hellebron, the -3 frenzy is a HUGE drawback for such an expensive unit, and as it will hold up a big chunk of your army, it should be easy to block it and prevent it from ever getting into close combat. Also the cauldron and Hellebron setup would die quickly if they ever meet two cannons.
Hellebron together with Executioners isn't the worst idea, but as you already have plenty of nice strength attacks you would need her somewhere else (unless you only have a fast cav list otherwise, but why would you use Hellebron in such lists).
It would be nice and fun to try her in a list with Sisters of Slaughter sometime.
- Blackguards
- Sisters of Slaughter
- Corsairs
As for the Witch Elves with Hellebron, the -3 frenzy is a HUGE drawback for such an expensive unit, and as it will hold up a big chunk of your army, it should be easy to block it and prevent it from ever getting into close combat. Also the cauldron and Hellebron setup would die quickly if they ever meet two cannons.
Hellebron together with Executioners isn't the worst idea, but as you already have plenty of nice strength attacks you would need her somewhere else (unless you only have a fast cav list otherwise, but why would you use Hellebron in such lists).
It would be nice and fun to try her in a list with Sisters of Slaughter sometime.
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
Re: Hellebron
If you know what you're doing, Frenzy tests of any sort are no problem. If you're needing to make them, you've screwed up.
I've used TWO superfrenzy blocks regularly... and never ONCE had to make a frenzy test with them. Not one. I plan ahead, and either kill their chaff or push it out of position with my own.
Frenzy is easy to manage when your army has some of the BEST chaff options in the game. Not necessarily the cheapest, but certainly among the best.
I've used TWO superfrenzy blocks regularly... and never ONCE had to make a frenzy test with them. Not one. I plan ahead, and either kill their chaff or push it out of position with my own.
Frenzy is easy to manage when your army has some of the BEST chaff options in the game. Not necessarily the cheapest, but certainly among the best.
Re: Hellebron
I've managed to bait quite a few frenzied units out of position in the past by just moving into the max charge range and having a lot of shooty units myself... as well as having the nice countercharging units at ready to take advantage of any such situation.
LD7 frenzy test is very dicey, even with the BSB around, and not something I would use in tournament play at least.
LD7 frenzy test is very dicey, even with the BSB around, and not something I would use in tournament play at least.
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
- Curse_Bearer
- Shade
- Posts: 102
- Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:42 pm
Re: Hellebron
Omnichron wrote:
It would be nice and fun to try her in a list with Sisters of Slaughter sometime.
That would be really fun, but only if you knew your opponent didn't have much, if any, shooting. Her bonus to dispel helps against magic coming at them, but any BS shooting your opponent has will be turned directly at that unit until they are all gone. T3 with no saves makes for short play time
- Haagrum
- PhD in Dark Magic
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Re: Hellebron
Curse_Bearer wrote:Omnichron wrote:
It would be nice and fun to try her in a list with Sisters of Slaughter sometime.
That would be really fun, but only if you knew your opponent didn't have much, if any, shooting. Her bonus to dispel helps against magic coming at them, but any BS shooting your opponent has will be turned directly at that unit until they are all gone. T3 with no saves makes for short play time
Target saturation and magical buffs should address this issue.
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Re: Hellebron
Haagrum wrote:Curse_Bearer wrote:Omnichron wrote:
It would be nice and fun to try her in a list with Sisters of Slaughter sometime.
That would be really fun, but only if you knew your opponent didn't have much, if any, shooting. Her bonus to dispel helps against magic coming at them, but any BS shooting your opponent has will be turned directly at that unit until they are all gone. T3 with no saves makes for short play time
Target saturation and magical buffs should address this issue.
I agree with both of you
Honestly though, I haven't really tried out Hellbron much other than one fun battle. For special chars I have only really run Morathi in a tournament as I think she is our best option (until End of Times at least).
If I were to run Morathi in any units, I'd consider having an assassin around to suddenly show up beside her and with tOTS. Ward saves? Nooo proooblem!
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
- Thebigkahuna
- Trainee Warrior
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:44 am
- Location: NSW Australia
Re: Hellebron
Ran Hellebron with CoB and 18 WEs last night vs WoC and she ripped them apart. He only had one Hellcanon and it luckily couldn't hit anything. She and her unit went through Chaos units like a hot knife in butter. MVP of the match!
...and I got to use her awesome +8 to dispel when he tried a Pit of Shades on me!
...and I got to use her awesome +8 to dispel when he tried a Pit of Shades on me!
DaZ
Warhammer 8th Edition Druchii Record
Wins 11
Draws 0
Losses 0
Warhammer 8th Edition Druchii Record
Wins 11
Draws 0
Losses 0