Druchii.net

Putting all the 'fun' discussion about the fluff aside what is GW going to do to our model range?

Are we truly going to have:

1) 4 types of Great Weapon Wielders?

2) 2 Types of Halbred using troops.

3) 4 types of Chariot (true chariots...more if you count flying and cauldrons)

4) 5+ kinds of Fast Cav

5) 5+ types of dragons

6) Two types of Bolt Throwers

6) Umpteen types of missile troops and 12+ rare slot units?

I mean really. What does this merger of elves mean when you get down to brass tacks (or in this case models)???

This is why I really, really hope the armies aren't combined for 9th.

If combined, there will be no motivation for GW to create balanced individualised races. Any 'balance' in the list will most probably require taking choices from all three varieties.

That said, it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to retire brand new kits. So there may be a "base profile" and a "special skill" (or rule);

i.e.

Halberds - base profile, special skill: Asur/Asrai/Druchii

Archers - base profile, special skill: Asur/Asrai/Druchii

GW - base profile, special skill: Asur/Asrai/Druchii

Fast Cav - base profile, special skill: Asur/Asrai/Druchii

Etc

Think space marines from 40k, make up your own chapter, it's fun! Just remember ultramarines (I guess asari with what gets spelt out in the fluff) are the 'true' chapter.

I do think we are ok. Most of our range is relatively new plastic and the existence of coldones and repeater crossbows mean our stuff is a bit more distinct than some of the High Elf/Wood Elf units. Only real concerns for me are shades that are not yet in plastic when shadow warriors are in plastic, as well as will we still get Harpies.

The main thing that worries me is what units may become extinct if the books are merged, due to simple lack of play from players choosing to use the better alternatives from the other elf lists. I have not put in the thought yet about what units these may be, but for the high elves it seems like yo me they would be using glade guard instead of their own archers for the Ap bonus and the range of magical arrows.

It would be nice to have special chracters or some other type of bonus for armies that stay 100% mono-culture. If GW wants me to continue my demand for their supply, then I don't wanna feel screwed over and that most of my colection will not need to be scrapped.

Old special character models always make characterful regular characters in the game. I remember when I started playing in 1991 with the elf and goblin set. Back then there were plenty of models that had names and special rules previous to that version of the game. I never knew who they were but used em because they were nice models in their own right. I'm sure it will be the same with our existing special characters. They may look dated but they stand out and add character to an army.

Deadsun wrote:I do think we are ok. Most of our range is relatively new plastic and the existence of coldones and repeater crossbows mean our stuff is a bit more distinct than some of the High Elf/Wood Elf units. Only real concerns for me are shades that are not yet in plastic when shadow warriors are in plastic, as well as will we still get Harpies.

Well I can see no use for crossbows if the other types of archers are available to us. But the box set comes with 3 different types of troops choices. Also who cares about harpies when eagles are available for 50 points each!

I've heard that store owners complain about the range of models they must keep in stock. These combined armies would be a great way for GW to reduce and concentrate on a much smaller range. I think 9th edition will see many box sets (even new ones) simply going away. So for example the new (9th edition) missile troop will be "Elven Archer". What model you use from their line is pretty much up to you. Or Elven great weapon bearer. Or Elven halberdier.

I see one of two possibilities:

1. This is one big marketing ploy to get people into other armies by getting them to buy other stuff and 9th ed books return as normal (like they did with SoC).

2. It's a 'Clear the decks' operation to release stuff existing collectors might want to buy. Their model quality is now at such a point that once you buy 20 or 30 of your chosen unit, there's not much need to replace them in the future. If there are new models that don't 'fit the pattern' they may snag a few extra purchases every few years.

Some choices won't see the light of day

Why use Spearmen/Dreadspears when you have access to Eternal Guard now?
Why use Archers/Darkshards when you have access to Glade Guard now?
Why use Ellyrian Reavers when you have access to Glade Riders/Dark Riders now?

It is mostly core units though, other choices are rather distinct and serve different roles.
Executioner=!White Lion=!Wildwood Ranger=!Swordmaster

We might not see a new Reaper bolt thrower though, which is a shame as I vastly prefer them to eagle claws appearance wise.

Dalamar wrote:Some choices won't see the light of day

Why use Spearmen/Dreadspears when you have access to Eternal Guard now?

Because they look cool. The entire Dark Elf line is awesome, and is probably one of the most aesthetically coherent armies out there.

Ok... so I use Dreadspear models and Eternal Guard rules.

I know I will be very very forgiving of "proxy-ish" model use for a very very long time. These 3 harpies on a 40 mm base is really an eagle etc. This leggo catapult will be my new trebuchet.

Dalamar wrote:Ok... so I use Dreadspear models and Eternal Guard rules.

Our spear boys might actually see some game time.

MP + Fight in extra ranks + AP = Yes please!

Eternal Guard might actually be the best core in the game right now.

ASF
Fight in 4 ranks on defense (5 in Horde)
Re-roll 1s to wound
AP
Stubborn
WS5

their only downside is S3... so add a dark sorceress to them to cast a couple PoDs and we're good.

Good yes but I'll still take cheaper Witches. And my Darkshard brick boosted with Hand of Glory and a Cauldron of Blood just wrecks enemies now.

Phierlihy wrote:And my Darkshard brick boosted with Hand of Glory and a Cauldron of Blood just wrecks enemies now.

Novel

I hope they tone all that nonsense down a bit for the next iteration of rules to come out. I don't like playing against broken type armies and I don't want to feel like I have to bring that kind of army to "keep up with the arms race". If I want a game with extreme arms races, I'll play MTG.

I hope they do like they did in 6th ed with chaos. You had major gods and undivided units and there were significant restrictions on how they mingled. You take a DE sorceress general, then you use all DE or elven "undivided" units or characters. There are still lots of room for improvements and shenanigans, but stops things from being downright broken, for me and others.

Right now we will have tons of choices.

In 9th edition I believe we won't have 3x of the same choices, but 1x with different options.

The more unique units will probably be around still, but Blackguard/Phoenix guard will probably be one choice. Same with Executioners/Swordmasters/White Lions (although one of those might still be unique somehow). The rare monsters that look similiar will probably also be just be one choice with options (War Hydra/Kharibdyss, Phoenixes of different kinds etc.)

Anyways, I will probably proxy some units if we are going to play EoT around in my area, and wait for 9th edition before I buy anything.

Omnichron wrote:Right now we will have tons of choices.

In 9th edition I believe we won't have 3x of the same choices, but 1x with different options.

The more unique units will probably be around still, but Blackguard/Phoenix guard will probably be one choice. Same with Executioners/Swordmasters/White Lions (although one of those might still be unique somehow). The rare monsters that look similiar will probably also be just be one choice with options (War Hydra/Kharibdyss, Phoenixes of different kinds etc.)

Anyways, I will probably proxy some units if we are going to play EoT around in my area, and wait for 9th edition before I buy anything.

Note that reavers and sword masters are only available thru isle of blood box set so will not likely be reproduced.

I'm not sure it means much.

At the moment there's a buzz around End Times and people are buying into it and supplementing their armies with the models from their linked armies, but that won't happen if the new edition follows a similar pattern because new players will just buy what they need and older players will lose interest in the fuss around End Times.

I suppose it's slightly different for Elves players because each army has so many things that the other two armies would like to get their hands on, but there's next to no benefit for maintining the End Times thing for the other armies that have been used so far. Vampires players could buy Screaming Skull Catapults and Skeleton Archers so that they can access ranged units, but that's it and if a Tomb Kings player buys into the End Times buzz....well, they'll almost certainly end up playing what amounts to a Vampires army.

GW would rather have Beastmen players buy a Ghrogon for £35 and Warriors players buy Chariots than Chaos Legions players buying the one that suits. It's ok in the short term because people want to try it out, but in the long term it would just kill certain armies off.

I think it might be like WoC' marks.
So there will be only 1 unit of (for example) Spearmen, but you can upgrade them to be Druchii (giving them Murderous Prowess).

Something like that.

The 'survivors' list in Khaine is probably a good judge of what models will remain for 9th IF there is a 9th.

I'm with the idea that IF they continue the timeline, we'll get a unified army with different styles as upgrades. But this ET changed the business model of Warhammer. It's no longer a single edition with its army books and then wait for something to happen. It's a moving, evolving story.. or at least has that potential. It could be we'll see one book for elves, and then as the 9th edition continues some campaign book may be released with "Hellebron's host" and a few new models accompanying her, or Alith Anar's revolt and his Shadow warriors. This way, they can focus on a few more general units and a unified book. They tried this with battle scrolls. Battle scrolls can always be used to reintroduce monsters which are left out of the ABs.
TBH... Fewer armies with a more evolving, dynamic game is likely going to be more fun to play than the old style where an army which is dealth a poor hand has to sit and wait a decade to see an upgrade and fix.

I'm curious to the future. I'd be disappointed if the world would be reset as if the ET never happened, but then again... I wouldn't be surprised if they did just that. It was a blast storywise and I wish I played more to play the campaign fully. Which is the point of it all, right? Having fun within the setting and our armies.

If they do change things, they're clearly trying to follow Warmachine's model - evolving story with different versions of the main characters that change with the story.

I'm not sure how well that will work since Warmachine is completed tied to its special characters while in Warhammer they've been entirely optional (I don't think I've used one since 5th edition Archaon). They're different games, but Warhammer has typically been designed in a less rigorous fashion compared to its competitors.

I suppose I might not have to worry about 9th Edition models...judging by the reaction my playing mates are expressing, looks like the point is moot. Of well...thankfully Blizzard finally did an awesome expansion of WoW. Warmachine was cool but it got power creep too and the line of miniatures and what not went virile making it almost impossible for me to stay up with the latest power combos and such.