Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

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Liquidedust
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by Liquidedust »

In front of me I see a level 4 repeatedly cast Power of Darkness over and over on her own unit until they are S10 or she fails her cast with one dice, and has dagger with her just in case.

Near her we have a level 1 with life that is just there to keep her alive and the unit numbers up . . .

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Dark knight
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by Dark knight »

"Each End Times spell can be cast only once per Magic phase, and cannot be dispelled if successfully cast."
Does this mean, that you can dispel them as normal, but the rip spells etc. can't be dispelled once they are in game? Since only the casting attempt is successful before the dispel attempt has been made and the casting (not attempt) is only successful after a dispel attempt?
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Calisson
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by Calisson »

No, you cannot dispel them at all.

Read magic rules p.29: casting a spell is described in part 2 and only in part 2.
Casting a spell is described p.32. Meeting the casting value is enough for the spell to have been cast successfully.
The dispel part, part 3, has no influence on the fact that the spell has been cast. It only results in the spell having no effect.
The sentence p.36 you are thinking about is about "spell resolution", it tells about the effects, which is irrelevant for us.

-=-=-

Back to ET:K spells, the rule says not only that the opponent cannot dispel, but also that the caster may terminate them at will.
It does not specify what happens when the caster is removed from the game (slain, fled...).
IMO, if there is no longer the caster available, then nobody can select to terminate the spell...
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by Haagrum »

All of the "remains in play" End Times spells have some inbuilt trigger or condition which will cause them to end, in addition to the caster voluntarily ending the spell.

On my reading of the wording of Drain Magic, that spell cannot get rid of "remains in play" End Times spells, but can remove the effects of End Times hexes or augments. This is because the prohibition on dispelling is not relevant to Drain Magic's effect on hexes and augments. They are not dispelled (unlike "remains in play" spells on the target unit), but instead their effects "immediately come to an end".
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by jeffman »

Just played an end times game vs chaos and i used 20 warlocks. Repeatedly casting PoD until S8 without losing any dice (even gaining dice) just... doesn't .... seem... fair

It should be that once dispelled that you can't be able to cast it again or else its really broke beyond repair
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by Calisson »

Thanks for the testimony.
Locks were already a must-have. With the new rule giving them access to all Death & Dark spells, of which most can be spammed over and over, they become really cheezy for their pts.

Still, one thing is to discuss the rule, as it is. And it is clear, dispelling does not prevent the spell to be cast again.
Another thing is to suggest a different house rule. It would be probably more fair - but still, that would be a house rule.

Note also that you can spam despite being dispelled, but the reverse is true, you can dispel again and again, even if you fail to dispel once.
A Lvl4 is a necessity in these times.
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by jeffman »

Yeah it are the rules, but at +5 to cast, you need only 2 dice to cast it and outlast the dispels of the upponent and you can basicly get the S to 10. I killed 4 crushers without them hitting back, overran in a 1+3++reroll bsb and killed it.

Rerolls and attacking with all 4 ranks (melakith was near). Is broken :lol:
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by Dalamar »

Conversely, casting slaanesh shards over and over can kill all your warlocks in a magic phase.

Hell, fireball will do its job.
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by jeffman »

Wel thats true, but with casting fireballs you wont get dice back, i don't know about the slaaneshi. So if i keep dispelling you might get one or two trough. If u keep dispelling PoD until i have 3? Dice left and you no more dispel dice, i still get S10
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Killerk
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by Killerk »

Dalamar wrote:Conversely, casting slaanesh shards over and over can kill all your warlocks in a magic phase.

Hell, fireball will do its job.



1. only if you have enough dice
2. thats why I have 2 units
3. also the bigger unit is always packing the ring. peiple say its overkill but I like it ;).
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Daeron
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by Daeron »

IMHO the repeatable spells challenge the very design of their balance. Don't get me wrong, I don't resent the new rules. I'd love to give them a whirl. But when a simple spell becomes repeatable, it becomes a wholly different spell... and potentially imbalanced compared to other spells.
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Dalamar
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by Dalamar »

Why would i keep dispelling PoD?

If you're not in combat then you may gain a few dice here and there, no big deal.
If you're in combat dispelling PoD is more important, until you roll a single die to cast it and roll not enough power.

In the meantime my missile fire makes sure the warlocjs are shredded.
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by Sangfroid »

2 questions

1) okay so everyone is a lore master now , so my lvl 1 now knows all spells from my selected lore for the game (let's say dark) but because she is a lvl 1 I presume I can only select one of those spells to cast per magic phase (albeit over and over again) a level 2 two spells, lvl 3 three spells and a level 4 four spells

Is that right?

I think that's been missed by people as the total number of "known" spells for magic phase casting purposes hasn't been changed just that each caster no longer needs to generate specific spells at the start of the game to use in the magic phase

2) morathi, I am using her tomorrow alongside Tyrion and the Aestyrion against Malekith, does this new rule mean she now knows all shadow, dark & death spells or do I need to say at the start of the game that each phase I will cast 1 shadow, 2 dark 1 death etc.....
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by Dark knight »

Sangfroid wrote:2 questions

1) okay so everyone is a lore master now , so my lvl 1 now knows all spells from my selected lore for the game (let's say dark) but because she is a lvl 1 I presume I can only select one of those spells to cast per magic phase (albeit over and over again) a level 2 two spells, lvl 3 three spells and a level 4 four spells

Is that right?

I think that's been missed by people as the total number of "known" spells for magic phase casting purposes hasn't been changed just that each caster no longer needs to generate specific spells at the start of the game to use in the magic phase

2) morathi, I am using her tomorrow alongside Tyrion and the Aestyrion against Malekith, does this new rule mean she now knows all shadow, dark & death spells or do I need to say at the start of the game that each phase I will cast 1 shadow, 2 dark 1 death etc.....


There are no limitations like that. You can cast whatever spells you know multiple times per phase provided you have the power dice and haven't failed a casting attempt on that spell previously in the same magic phase. E.g. your lvl 1 could try to cast a Doombolt, a Word of Pain, the Power of Darkness and a Black Horror in the same phase.
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Re: Magic in the End Times: rule discussion

Post by Calisson »

Morathi knows indeed 26 spells, which can all be cast, most of them several times, pending enough PD.
- 7 shadows + superspell
- 7 death + superspell
- 8 dark + superspell
- fulcrum
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