The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Gidean »

Alright lads...considering the three books (sets) that are out, compose the sickest (as in you would never wish to face it) Deathstar you can imagine. The rules are simple. Any legal combination of characters and troops and keep it at 1000 points or below. This should be from a 'Legion' type list.

An example off the top of my head would be High Elf bsb with heavy armor and shield, Banner of the World Dragon in a unit of executioners with razor standard and an attached Bloodwrack Medusa. I don't have my books with me so this example is vague. But be sure to include the number of troops, etc. :) Feel free to stick in special characters if you wish and they fit in the point allotment.
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Curse_Bearer »

I don't have the accursed High Elf book, but I imagine 25 Phoenix Guard w/ a High Mage, razor standard, and a withbrew cauldron hag would be pretty terrifying. :twisted:
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Calisson »

I'd argue that Malekith alone has become kind of Death Star.

Also, worth to notice, magic has become more powerful as before. Anything could become a Death Star if boosts are readily available:
Fire #2 Flaming Word of Ruin, 8+, spammed => wounds anything on 2+ (assuming 1 always misses) with shooting or CC.
Metal #2, 9+, has same effect plus AP.
Beasts #sig, 10+, can give S10 and T10.
Light #1, 6+, spammed, makes the target unit impossible to hit (or maybe we can assume 6 always hits).
Light #6, 12+, spammed, can give 10A (unlikely, but still...).
Life #2, 8+, can give T10.
Life #5, 12+, can regrow the unit.

This said, I would consider a unit of 15 Sisters of the Thorn (access to all Life and Beasts) which 1st rank would be made of 5 fighty DE characters on Steeds with natural 1+.
They would have +5 total to spam their spells, with a near guaranteed T10 to all thanks to Beast sig and Life #2.
Side effect: note that poisonous S10 javelins rock!
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Rork »

Calisson wrote:Fire #2 Flaming Word of Ruin, 8+, spammed => wounds anything on 2+ (assuming 1 always misses) with shooting or CC.


Didn't the FAQ at one point allow it to auto-wound if it boosts 2+ to 1+?

(although I think the worst to hit you can get in combat is 6+)
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Gidean »

Calisson wrote:I'd argue that Malekith alone has become kind of Death Star.

Also, worth to notice, magic has become more powerful as before. Anything could become a Death Star if boosts are readily available:
Fire #2 Flaming Word of Ruin, 8+, spammed => wounds anything on 2+ (assuming 1 always misses) with shooting or CC.
Metal #2, 9+, has same effect plus AP.
Beasts #sig, 10+, can give S10 and T10.
Light #1, 6+, spammed, makes the target unit impossible to hit (or maybe we can assume 6 always hits).
Light #6, 12+, spammed, can give 10A (unlikely, but still...).
Life #2, 8+, can give T10.
Life #5, 12+, can regrow the unit.

This said, I would consider a unit of 15 Sisters of the Thorn (access to all Life and Beasts) which 1st rank would be made of 5 fighty DE characters on Steeds with natural 1+.
They would have +5 total to spam their spells, with a near guaranteed T10 to all thanks to Beast sig and Life #2.
Side effect: note that poisonous S10 javelins rock!



And being fast cav... Oh my THAT is sick. Can you make that under 1000 points?
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Calisson »

Malekith in the Eternity version is at 1000 pts, fully kitted.

15 SoT, muso, standard = 410 pts - they can take 50pts magic pennant
Each DE Master, Steed, full armor, pair of RHB = 102 pts - they can take 50 pts magic object
I would take as magic object:
- banner of swiftness (15ps) for fast cav M10!
- MR(1) (15 pts), noting that SoT have 4++
- 5 cheap magic swords (40 pts)
Total = 990 pts

Setting (front on top):

MCCCP (where M=muso, C=character, P=pennant, S=Sister of the T)
CSSSC
SSSSS
SSSSS

The characters are there to protect the SoT. They would make way and replace M or P as needed in case of a charge from any side.
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Gidean »

Calisson wrote:Malekith in the Eternity version is at 1000 pts, fully kitted.

15 SoT, muso, standard = 410 pts - they can take 50pts magic pennant
Each DE Master, Steed, full armor, pair of RHB = 102 pts - they can take 50 pts magic object
I would take as magic object:
- banner of swiftness (15ps) for fast cav M10!
- MR(1) (15 pts), noting that SoT have 4++
- 5 cheap magic swords (40 pts)
Total = 990 pts

Setting (front on top):

MCCCP (where M=muso, C=character, P=pennant, S=Sister of the T)
CSSSC
SSSSS
SSSSS

The characters are there to protect the SoT. They would make way and replace M or P as needed in case of a charge from any side.


My God! That's brilliant and insidious! Would never wish to face that star! Has rage quit written all over it. Any way to get the Banner of the World dragon in there? With such devious and clever minds how come you Frenchmen loose so many wars? ;)
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by T.D. »

Gidean wrote: With such devious and clever minds how come you Frenchmen loose so many wars? ;)


Belt
<-------this one
:P
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Calisson »

Rork wrote:Didn't the FAQ at one point allow it to auto-wound if it boosts 2+ to 1+?
Official Update Version 1.9 wrote:Page 51 – Close Combat, Roll To Wound.
Add the following sentence to the end of the fourth
paragraph: ‘A To Wound roll of a 1 on a D6 always fails,
regardless of any dice modifiers.’
-=-=-

@ Gidean
You asked for Death Stars at 1000pts.
I provided two, Malekith and the SoT.
Are there other proposals to compare with?

-=-=-
Gidean wrote:how come you Frenchmen loose so many wars?
I suppose you mean "lose", not "loose"? Sorry if I don't catch all your nuances, English is a foreign language for me.

Well, assuming you wish a reply to your off-topic question about losing: the more you fight, the more you lose. France has a bi-millenium tradition of wars won or lost, and yes, that means many.
Hey, France lost Vietnam too, even before the US!
OK, France did not participate to Irak legitimate war to deliver the World from WMD, that's probably why the US was free to make a neat job for the greater benefit of the world. ;) ;)
Now, if we have to keep this particular discussion running, I suggest we made it in the "Off Topic" forum.
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by T.D. »

Back on topic:

30-40 Witches FC Razor Standard
BSB Banner of the Lame Dragon
Hag Cauldron RoK Obsidian Blade
Sorceress Lv1 Beasts IronCurse Icon, Opal Amulet
Shadowdancer OTS
Hellebron
As many 2+ Masters on foot to keep the Sorceress and BSB in the back rank.

Dispel bonuses, bounces magical attacks, S10 choppery, +S/T magic, multi-poisoned attacks, ward saves, warmachine ward, forces enemy ward save re-rolls + removes enemy rank bonuses

30-40 Sisters of Slaughter FC Swiftness
BSB Banner of the Lame Dragon
Bloodwrack Shrine
Sorceress Lv4 Beasts Black Amulet, II, Dispel Scroll
Shadowblade
Hellebron
As many Assassins (OTS, PoS, BDE, GS, etc) to keep the Sorceress and BSB in the back rank.

As above minus the poison but plus 4+ CC ward and no forced overrun.
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Makiwara »

Gidean wrote:My God! That's brilliant and insidious! Would never wish to face that star! Has rage quit written all over it. Any way to get the Banner of the World dragon in there?


Just pop a high elf BSB in the second rank instead of one of the masters, the unit loses fast cav but gains the BoTWD, though with a 4++ and the masters with a 1+ they may not need it to be honest.

Another idea I've had is a unit of COK's, Banner of Swiftness, with a Wood Elf Glade Lord and BSB with Banner of the Hunter King both on Great Stags, pop a dark mage in the second rank for power of darkness. You get a vanguarding Cold One Bus with impact hits, rerolling charges. Not as good as the executioner block idea, but nice all the same, gives a good home to Wood Elf Great Stags, which otherwise are a bit of a red headed step child. Got to miss the Rhymers Harp at that stage, putting it on the Glade Lord for a 5++ for the unit would have been a nice icing on the cake, too bad.

Gidean wrote:With such devious and clever minds how come you Frenchmen loose so many wars? ;)


To be fair to the French, they were the greatest military in the West for longer than America has been a nation. Charlemagne to just prior to WW1 is a pretty good innings, by comparison, America had the fall of the Soviet Union to today (and how much longer is up to debate).
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by T.D. »

Makiwara wrote:Another idea I've had is a unit of COK's, Banner of Swiftness, with a Wood Elf Glade Lord and BSB with Banner of the Hunter King both on Great Stags, pop a dark mage in the second rank for power of darkness. You get a vanguarding Cold One Bus with impact hits, rerolling charges. Not as good as the executioner block idea, but nice all the same, gives a good home to Wood Elf Great Stags, which otherwise are a bit of a red headed step child. Got to miss the Rhymers Harp at that stage, putting it on the Glade Lord for a 5++ for the unit would have been a nice icing on the cake, too bad.


A brutal variant to the classic Dark Elf Knight Bus! :burns:
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Gidean »

@ Calisson. Was just kidding with you my friend. Thanks for correcting my English. :) Was likely a typo caused by my fat finger on this tiny iPhone keyboard. ;p I do love your unit.

@ T.D. In your first list the poor sorceress would die quickly to treacherous witch elves. Also not sure you could get all that for under 1000 points.
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by T.D. »

Lol sorry I missed the 1k restrictions

....and forgot all about the Witches penchant for random stabbery :P ...lets hope she can T herself up before the inevitable craziness !lol!
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Gidean »

T.D. wrote:Lol sorry I missed the 1k restrictions

....and forgot all about the Witches penchant for random stabbery :P ...lets hope she can T herself up before the inevitable craziness !lol!



Poison...... :killed: Best to leave naked sorceress out of Witch units. :lol:

As I ponder deadly combos for a deathstar I have to wonder what would a Dreadlord with full mundane and the Wizarding Hat provide? Yes you have to roll for a random lore but now that all wizards are lore masters all the lores are useful. Wizard with a 1+ armor save and fairly decent hand to hand powers....? Assuming he's on a steed or cold one and carrying a lance.
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Red... »

Makiwara wrote:To be fair to the French, they were the greatest military in the West for longer than America has been a nation. Charlemagne to just prior to WW1 is a pretty good innings


Only if your definition of "greatest military" is somewhat skewed. France spent most of its existence during this period being beaten by the English and the Germans (first the Holy Roman Empire - which included much of Germany - and later the Prussians). Their most spectacular military leaders included Napoleon (beaten not just once, but multiple times on land and sea by the British), Joan of Arc (captured and executed by the English under charges of being a witch), and Francis I (who lost each and every single war he launched against the Holy Roman Empire). Scarcely a track record that makes them the greatest military in the West for that period... France has had a distinguished military history, to be sure, but I think your statement goes beyond reality in the pursuit of hyperbole.

On a more humorous note, the link here is very tongue in cheek. And for those of you who enjoy this kind of thing, here is some completely politically incorrect humour on that theme by the UK Daily Mail
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by T.D. »

Gidean wrote:
Poison...... :killed: Best to leave naked sorceress out of Witch units. :lol:


Don't have the book handy but I thought it was only a chance of a few S3 hits, not poison?

Gidean wrote:As I ponder deadly combos for a deathstar I have to wonder what would a Dreadlord with full mundane and the Wizarding Hat provide? Yes you have to roll for a random lore but now that all wizards are lore masters all the lores are useful. Wizard with a 1+ armor save and fairly decent hand to hand powers....? Assuming he's on a steed or cold one and carrying a lance.


Never really paid much attention to this item. But if hes on a Cold One it doesnt matter about the stupidity.

Interesting way to get a Dark Elf badass Loremaster!
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Makiwara »

Red... wrote:
Makiwara wrote:To be fair to the French, they were the greatest military in the West for longer than America has been a nation. Charlemagne to just prior to WW1 is a pretty good innings


Only if your definition of "greatest military" is somewhat skewed. France spent most of its existence during this period being beaten by the English and the Germans (first the Holy Roman Empire - which included much of Germany - and later the Prussians). Their most spectacular military leaders included Napoleon (beaten not just once, but multiple times on land and sea by the British), Joan of Arc (captured and executed by the English under charges of being a witch), and Francis I (who lost each and every single war he launched against the Holy Roman Empire). Scarcely a track record that makes them the greatest military in the West for that period... France has had a distinguished military history, to be sure, but I think your statement goes beyond reality in the pursuit of hyperbole.

On a more humorous note, the link here is very tongue in cheek. And for those of you who enjoy this kind of thing, here is some completely politically incorrect humour on that theme by the UK Daily Mail



Yes, hyperbole played a little bit of a factor, it was a two line throw away comment after all, however it should be noted that a great deal of the times England and France went to war, it was England and France vs France, excluding Napoleon of course. Joan of Arc was executed by the English upon request of their French allies, who wanted nothing to do with making a martyr while they strove to reunify a country and I've not heard Francis I referred to as a great military leader, didn't he simply continue on with the already established convention of his predecessors? In naval strength no country really ever touched the British and most were ill content to try, preferring more asymmetrical measures against the British naval force and the British used naval blockade to grind down stronger land based continental powers before engagement, which saw some success. Didn't mean that they didn't share have some terrible losses at land of their own, to the Turks for instance. The Holy Roman Empire was a major player in continental Europe certainly, it helped that they were the largest power by far in western Europe for most of that time (Russia is in Eastern Europe after all), up until the end of the Thirty Years War, the Treaty of Westphalia and the breaking up of the power structure of the Empire. After which the Holy Roman Empire and Spain declined and France did not. It was also founded by the Franks, so it blends the lines to a point. Napoleon was beaten certainly, but it took General Winter, Russia, Prussia and England to do it and yes Prussia dominated France in the Franco-Prussian War which saw the rise of Germany, that would have been the pre WW1 period I was referring to. As I said, it was a two line throw away comment, I didn't intend to cite primary and secondary sources and yes France did have military defeats, but we don't hold the Battle of Carrhae and Cannae against the Romans and there isn't a country on earth that doesn't have some mollywhoppings on their record. If you look at the time frame and all the players as a whole, France is the greatest total military power of the west for the time.

Back on topic I'm going to try a version of the Waystar with 5 Waystalkers, a pair of assassins or maybe Shadowblade and some GW shades, see how that goes. If I'm feeling lucky I might pop a Handmaiden with the Reaver Bow and POS in there for Quick to Fire and a one turn bolt thrower. Oh maybe even Alith Anar!
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Gidean »

Guys! It was just a small jest at Calisson imparting a veiled compliment because of his clever idea. Don't derail the thread. Sheesh!
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by TheSupremePatriarch »

I used to run a Warlock bus with 10 Warlocks and 5 characters, but replaced them with Sisters in a combined list.
Played against the Sister-bus a couple of days ago and it's brutal. All the sisters need to cast is Savage Beast on all the characters and that's it. You have a Dreadlord and 4 Masters, 25 attacks, all hitting on 3's and re-rolling (usually), S10, re-roling 1's. Went into a block of Plaguebearers and I did no wounds, they just ripped through the unit.

I've been trying to find a way of getting the higher level Alarielle with 2 blocks on infantry in, she gives every unit within 12" Regen, but under 3k points it doesn't seem feasible :/
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Dark reaper »

Big unit of Phoenix Guard with s7 Dreadlord and AP banner. Malekith to give them fight in 4 ranks and re-roll all to wound as well as moving them 20" a turn. That ability is just too damn good. You probably don't even need the Dreadlord...
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Gidean »

This not truly a Deathstar but does come in under 1000 points. 600 to be exact. ALL of the Elven Hosts from Warhammer: Khaine can field 8 repeater bolt throwers! 4 from special and 4 from rare. :shock:

My Lord, that could put a serious hurt on a whole lot of big bads in the game. :burns:
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Dalamar »

It can also die really fast. All you need is a couple ambushing glade riders with hagbane tips and a pegmaster with cloak.
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Gidean »

Dalamar wrote:It can also die really fast. All you need is a couple ambushing glade riders with hagbane tips and a pegmaster with cloak.


Would take a few turns to eliminate 8. The survivors could mince those ambushers. Better they attack my 70 point models rather than executioner horde.
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Re: The Sickest Deathstar you can imagine.

Post by Dalamar »

It's ok, the executioner horde will have 3++ and 2++ against magic.
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