Dual dragon lists

[Ajattaro]

I've been hating to play against these WoC lists with chariots, crushers, DPs, unkillable heroes etc, and it feels that strongest and surest counter would be a dragon. Maybe meta is starting to favor them at this point, when the new WE are going to sweat too when facing a dragon.
Magic will be no problem for us, as you can have scroll caddy and warlocks and still have decent magic.

Since we have the 50% on lords, I was happy to be able to include dragon reliably in average sized games again. But as I usually play 2400, my mind started to think best ways to exploit it: TWO DRAGONS

It sure sound pretty despicable, as the dragon lord can be really hard to deal with. Cannons will be the main problem, but rest of the army can deal with those. Also if your list is extremely fast, you have no hurry to get into combat, because you will do it eventually. So hiding dragons until war machines are destroyed could viable, but hard maybe.

Other problem of the list is the hefty price of two dragons, but it can a good thing if you see it that way that it's hard get points from the list. I made my dual dragon list so that all the points are sunk into dragons, pegasus BSB and a flaming horde of witches, so its hard to get points from. Everything else is fast and evasive.

Problem also with dragons are that enemy will concentrate on them most of the game. I see that OnG might be the worst opponent, as they feature lots big hard hitting blocks and warmachines, so you have get into hard combats with your dragons or dodge all sorts of artillery fire... Dwarves can be painful too, but easier to deal with if your dragons survive through the first rounds.

I kitted my general dragon to be stubborn and other to beat face of characters/deathstars. And for the list I would consider taking lots of DR as core and fast and hard hitting special. Shades would be needed for emergency evacuation after the dragon dies. But as I usually play in ETC environment, I am pretty bound to field only 2 units of DR.


Dreadlord on Black Dragon 542pts
Halberd, HA+SDC+ Charmed Shield, ToPreservation, CoCommand

Dreadlord on Black Dragon 551pts
SoAH, AoD +S+SDC, TOTS, DBGem

So both are 1+ 4++ against shooting, but general is only 2+ in CC... You could give him some cheap magic weapon (has 85p worth of M.items now) or Dragonhelm instead of Charmed Shield, but I think that Charmed Shield is mandatory. Halberd gives grinding potential, but I think that Biting blade would do fine too. 1+ is so much better than 2+ save.

What kind of builds you fellow D.net members would use? And how would you play your lists?

(edit: maybe this should be in general discussions, but what ever)

[marcopollo]

Hail hero hammer ... again!

Seriously though, double dragons is intriguing if you have the models. I don't but could use one dragon and one manticore. I won't be using big monster mounts until the rules clear up as to combined stats and whether ward saves etc cover both the rider and the mount. Against some armies it won't matter much, against others this is a big deal.

But a tooled up manticore and a hydra come pretty close to a dragon dreadlord in terms of points.

[Haagrum]

There are quite a few Dragon-rider builds in this D.R.A.I.C.H. article.

In some ways, a Pegasus build is better, because a Pegasus can't be killed from under its rider like a Dragon can. A 4+ ward for a Pegasus rider will be more effective against the sorts of über-killy characters that a WoC list will put onto the table.

Also, I realise that this is not the path you've taken to date, but have you considered taking a Sorceress on a Dragon? If combat is the name of the game, then a Beasts Sorceress with the right gear can put a reasonable dent in opposing units. This option is not a hero-killer, but with the right items, she can make life very difficult for a WoC opponent with spells like Curse of Anraheir and Amber Spear. She can tip a combat with Wildform, and do terrible damage if she manages to cast Savage Beast of Horros on herself or your other Dragonlord.

In a similar vein, a ranged damage Lore (and the Lore of Metal in particular) can be very effective against the chariot/DP-spamming WoC builds out there. Dark Magic also offers a few good spells for killing targets, and no combat character wants to get hexed with Word of Pain. Even the Lore of Undeath can be quite effective to chaff up your opponent's battle lines, summon Ethereals to hold up chariots (even Banshees to scream at them, with a few Raise The Dead counters), or bring in Zombies or Skeletons to force Skullcrushers to overrun their targets and get flank-charged. Hand of Dust is a ridiculously good spell for a Sorceress carrying The Other Trickster's Shard (particularly if a scroll caddy throws in a Miasma to drop the target's Initiative and net you a re-roll to hit).