Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:19 pm



Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
"Hate" for the Folding Fortess 
Author Message
Aspiring Brush Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:19 pm
Posts: 680
Location: In my Armory, protecting my Weed.
Maybe Hate is a strong word but with the Exclusion of the Folding Fortess from the Druchii Tourny and checking the rulepacks of the few Tournied I have been to.
None allow the use if it. Am I missing some Basterdly Evilish Tactic that was used with it before I started playing or is it more that ppl dont like it that an Additional piece of Terrain gets put on the Table?

_________________
PLOG - The House of Corvus
Image

Group 41- Name: Searinox Nagharha - Shade
WS:5 S:3 T:3 D:4 I:4
Equipment: Long sword; Falchion (family heirloom), Very Good Sabre, Short sword, Dagger, Throwing Dagger (4) SeaDragon Cloak, Chain
Inventory: 30 gold (214 still to be paid), Silver Bracelet, several flagons: 1x Strength potion, 3x Courage potion, 3x Healing Potion.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Acrobatics, Basic Stealth


Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:42 pm
Profile
Killed by Khorne
Killed by Khorne
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:51 pm
Posts: 2818
Location: Hinterlands of Khuresh; The Lost City of the Angels
Prevents castling.

_________________
OldHammer Advanced Ruleset
- Adding Tactical Depth to Your Favourite Tabletop Wargame


Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:44 pm
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:53 am
Posts: 594
Check the lists from the last UK Masters, held a few weeks ago: http://www.raffazza.blogspot.co.uk/2015 ... eview.html

The event was won by Hristo Nikolov - HE with a Folding Fortress.

As a brief summary, he had:
- a unit of 65 archers
- two eagles
- and many characters. So his whole army save 100 points was sitting in a building. You have to assault it somehow if you want a chance of winning. But it is quite protected, too:

- BSB with BOTWD so most spells are kinda useless
- 3x lvl1 light mage with various scrolls
- Alarielle - I do not know her rules but am pretty sure she can help with the survivability quite a lot. +8 to cast lore of life if nothing else.
- Teclis can pick some nice defensive spells too should your opponent be really concerned.

For offensive abilities, there is:
- lvl4 death
- Teclis who can choose freely one spell from every lore. So there is, for example, S7 banishment, amber spear, searing doom, purple sun or some snipe spells depending on what the lvl4 gets, fireball or maybe flaming sword (+1 to wound for the archers) and so on. The variety is so big that unless really unlucky in his magic phases he can earn quite a lot of points from anyone even if the opponent tries to hide out of reach.

And how are you going to hurt him back?
- shooting is next to useless - hard cover in the building, potential defensive buffs, potential lore of life on Alarielle. A dedicated gunline might have a chance perhaps but even then I am not sure.
- close combat - there are still 65 ASF archers before you get to significant points. Cavalry will have to dismount, losing many of their bonuses. Something like a flaming WE horde could have a chance but with the two eagles redirecting they will not see combat before turn 4, probably even later. In the meantime, they will get showered with arrows, banishments and other stuff.
- normal spells - BOTWD FTW
- so this leaves the few spells that do not allow BOTWD saves - final transmutation, dwellers, purple sun, black horror, pit of shades. There are no more if I am not mistaken. However: purple sun and pit of shades are based on initiative which is high for elves; besides, they can scatter or misfire. Black horror is good as it is strength based (though there was some normal MR in the tower as well I would guess, from Teclis or Alarielle at least) but it can misfire as well and dark magic is not used that often in tournaments. Dwellers are nice but you first have to take lore of life which does not go well with every kind of army and second, you need to get quite close (21 inches at least) where the opponent can dweller you back while having many more offensive spells at his disposal. You might win but the whole battle then turns into the question of who forces through the spell first. Not much of a game. The most sensible option is final transmutation probably but again, sitting behind a hill 35 inches from the tower, casting the one potent spell and hoping for a six is not much of a game. Besides, he can always target your other units or, if they are hidden and not likely to participate in the battle, leave the building and get in range for something more dangerous. In a fight between dwellers and final transmutation dwellers are likely to win.

So in short, most people think this item leads to boring battles.

_________________
The Lost Colony defenders - Rowena's painting log

Alternative Armies - because we can build any army without GW!


Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:20 pm
Profile
Corsair
Corsair
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Posts: 8706
Location: Hag Graef
Well, that's why there are scenarios.
1-2-3 can get a draw provided the range allows to be away from spells.
4-5 is harder to get out of range.
6 is autowin against such list.

_________________
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}


Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:34 pm
Profile
Generalissimo
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 3715
Location: Baltimore
Artillery ought to be able to damage buildings, that would be a quick and easy fix.

_________________
"While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. So answer the question."

Don't be a munchkin?

Image

I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman


Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:10 pm
Profile
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Posts: 9675
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Main issue with the tower is the building rules. After every round of combat the assaulting unit would get pushed back just go get peppered by more arrows while the defending unit is steadfast on Ld10 with re-roll and never have to select their vital characters to for assault parties. There simply isn't enough time to kill 60+ models under these rules. Even witch elves, that will kill A LOT each turn won't make it in time.

Then again I never saw why exactly the tower gets banned. Yes, getting to play against a list that is built with the tower in mind sucks. Unless you're skaven (Crack's Call) you're very unlikely to win. But at the same time you're just as unlikely to lose. Nobody who plans to win a tournament will bring the tower. Only those who want to prevent others from winning will... and after bringing it a few times they'll realize how boring of a game it makes.

Used moderately, the tower is too expensive points wise.
Used to the extreme it makes for a really boring game for both players; game likely to end in a draw.

_________________
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:52 pm
Profile
Aspiring Brush Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:19 pm
Posts: 680
Location: In my Armory, protecting my Weed.
Now that you guys mention it it makes so much sense :roll:
Those would make for very boring games yeah. especially if they would put a Quick to Fire unit in it.

Thnx for the quick responses guys :D

_________________
PLOG - The House of Corvus
Image

Group 41- Name: Searinox Nagharha - Shade
WS:5 S:3 T:3 D:4 I:4
Equipment: Long sword; Falchion (family heirloom), Very Good Sabre, Short sword, Dagger, Throwing Dagger (4) SeaDragon Cloak, Chain
Inventory: 30 gold (214 still to be paid), Silver Bracelet, several flagons: 1x Strength potion, 3x Courage potion, 3x Healing Potion.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Acrobatics, Basic Stealth


Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:34 pm
Profile
Generalissimo
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 3715
Location: Baltimore
Building on my earlier points and lifting an idea from Dalamar's post. Easy rules fix:

- Make buildings damageable by artillery and flaming attacks. Each building could be assigned a number of "hit points", and then would take damage accordingly. So, for example, a tower could have 6 hit points: when hit by a cannon it suffers D6 hit points. When all 6 are gone, the building collapses causing horrible damage to the unit inside.
- Limit the number of models within a building (10 per floor, including the ground floor, seems reasonable).
- Limit the number of models that can fire out of a building, based upon available windows and arrow slits. Maybe four models per slot. Models on battlements can all shoot.
- Models assaulting a building remain in close combat until either the unit in the building or the one outside of it runs away (i.e. no push back).
- Units in a building get to re-roll their leadership tests, but no steadfast unless the number of models in their unit is greater than the number of models in the assaulting unit.

That would make buildings manageable, without nerfing them altogether. Units would still get hardcover from being up there, as a well as an automatic re-roll for their leadership test in close combat. Those not on the ground floor in multi-story buildings would also still be able to see over the heads of their friends and enemies to shoot other targets due to their elevated height .

_________________
"While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. So answer the question."

Don't be a munchkin?

Image

I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman


Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:18 pm
Profile
Dragon Lord
Dragon Lord
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
Posts: 9675
Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Forcing characters to fight in assaults would already solve most of the problems. Most building deathstars are filled with rather fragile characters. The above described unit would have to place.
BSB
3 wizards
Alarielle
Teclis
lvl 4 death mage
and 3 archers
into assault parties. How long do you think they would survive without bleeding any points? (which is the main idea as under current rules you'd have to hack through 60 archers before getting any shot at the characters.)

_________________
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16


Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:08 pm
Profile
PhD in Dark Magic
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:54 am
Posts: 592
Location: The depths of the Black Library
The Glottkin End Times book included rules for destroying buildings and for setting them on fire, IIRC.

Set a T value and number of Wounds/building points, and maybe require a minimum S5 to damage it, and you give every army the means to destroy the building. I have a very pleasant mental image of two Treemen ripping down the fortress with Tree Whacks, Lord of the Rings style.

_________________
"The wrath of a good man is not to be feared. They have too many rules."

"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."


Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:26 pm
Profile
Aspiring Brush Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:19 pm
Posts: 680
Location: In my Armory, protecting my Weed.
Actually Red.. Of the things you Listed, one is already in place.
You can only fire with a Max of 5 models per Floor.

_________________
PLOG - The House of Corvus
Image

Group 41- Name: Searinox Nagharha - Shade
WS:5 S:3 T:3 D:4 I:4
Equipment: Long sword; Falchion (family heirloom), Very Good Sabre, Short sword, Dagger, Throwing Dagger (4) SeaDragon Cloak, Chain
Inventory: 30 gold (214 still to be paid), Silver Bracelet, several flagons: 1x Strength potion, 3x Courage potion, 3x Healing Potion.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Acrobatics, Basic Stealth


Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:15 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 11 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software