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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:39 am
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2 units of 10 (5x2) or 1 unit of 20 (5x4)?

Not using CoB as don't have nor don't want to buy the model. :D


Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:30 pm
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Malekith's Best Friend
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2 units of 10 with 7 models in your front rank to maximize attacks against a typically 5-wide enemy unit

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Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:53 am
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Location: The thin edge of the wedge
Ryank wrote:
2 units of 10 (5x2) or 1 unit of 20 (5x4)?

Not using CoB as don't have nor don't want to buy the model. :D


The model is a pain to build and paint well.

I like one unit of 14 (2x7). It has enough models to sustain some casualties and still be effective. It is not too big that it is considered a major target and is often underestimated in what it can do (atleast in my meta).


Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:19 pm
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Executioner

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:02 pm
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Location: Stalking the Frozen Lands of Finland
14 is good number. 10 get mauled beyond use easily, and larger units start becoming expensive enough for enemy to concentrate.

I usually field a unit of 21 flaming witches with fc in my list, and sometimes its only infantry unit in the list. They die almost always. It is too expensive unit to use as chaff too... I wish I had more dark riders to fill the core for competetive lists.

21 is good number too though, its not really much but witches only need two wide ranks to cause lots of pain, so that unit has good amount of extra bodies too. But without CoB you generally would like to keep your witches cheap and small


Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:26 pm
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:39 am
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marcopollo wrote:
Ryank wrote:
2 units of 10 (5x2) or 1 unit of 20 (5x4)?

Not using CoB as don't have nor don't want to buy the model. :D


The model is a pain to build and paint well.

I like one unit of 14 (2x7). It has enough models to sustain some casualties and still be effective. It is not too big that it is considered a major target and is often underestimated in what it can do (atleast in my meta).


So do you go full command with this unit of just standard bearer?

Ajattaro wrote:
14 is good number. 10 get mauled beyond use easily, and larger units start becoming expensive enough for enemy to concentrate.

I usually field a unit of 21 flaming witches with fc in my list, and sometimes its only infantry unit in the list. They die almost always. It is too expensive unit to use as chaff too... I wish I had more dark riders to fill the core for competetive lists.

21 is good number too though, its not really much but witches only need two wide ranks to cause lots of pain, so that unit has good amount of extra bodies too. But without CoB you generally would like to keep your witches cheap and small


So the 14 or 21 with full command or just keep cheap as you stated and just go with standard bearer or just naked without any type of full command, standard, musician or anything?


Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:04 am
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Executioner

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If you go cheap, take musician for swift reforms. Standards only give up points when they get slaughtered. Champions are useful challengers with current character heavy meta state... But otherwise not much use for them either.

And oh, to answer your initial question, get more witches :D. You should go 2x14 or 1x30 with CoB to make most out of your biatches


Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:30 am
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Trainee Warrior

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Ajattaro wrote:
If you go cheap, take musician for swift reforms. Standards only give up points when they get slaughtered. Champions are useful challengers with current character heavy meta state... But otherwise not much use for them either.

And oh, to answer your initial question, get more witches :D. You should go 2x14 or 1x30 with CoB to make most out of your biatches


Don't want to buy the CoB model so that is out but going with 28 (2x14) or 2 units of 14 (7x2) seems right with only a musician I'm assuming.


Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:29 pm
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The last game that I used 14 WE I took mus, and std (+razor std). My suggestions, either musician for cheap, or add the std and razor std for more potency. Leave any middle ground alone.


Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:10 pm
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Executioner

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marcopollo wrote:
The last game that I used 14 WE I took mus, and std (+razor std). My suggestions, either musician for cheap, or add the std and razor std for more potency. Leave any middle ground alone.


Isn't razor quite expensive investment for a small unit? With AP you are looking to get stuck with tough units for a long time, and 14 witches last effective only 2 rounds of combat. I would take at least 20 witches with razor banner to ensure at least two ranks of witches for multiple combat rounds. About 20 is a little sub optimal mid range, but I like the size without cob


Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:11 pm
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Yes it is rather pricey for a small unit. But they were my only infantry apart from some scouting shades. It came in at around 220 pts, which is not bad. They weren't my main fighting force, I was using CoK and some monsters. It wasn't exactly a super competitive list (although it did have 4 RBT).

I was pitted against bretonia. So the AP did come in handy, but not really that much. His shooting never targeted the unit, so when they came into the flank of the knights of the realm bus, with CoK as the anvil in the front, he didn't really have much of a chance. I had sniped his BSB by that point and his big deathlance was soulblighted. 14 witches 7x2 deals out 28 attacks. So the AP wasn't that poor of an investment allowing him to save on 3+ instead of 2+ (doubling the wounding ratio) and thus only allowing him to save on a subsequent 6++ prayer blessing. I suppose you could see the rzr banner as equivalent to 4 elves. So, is the AP worth 4 elves. In the front, at 3A each no, in the back at 1A each yes.

Like I said before, if you want cheap, go for the 10 man with musician and run them 7 +3. I use 10 or 14 model units, and sometimes put the razor std in the 14 model unit.

AS an aside, I do have the CoB and found it a pain to put together and it took a long time to paint well. And, I don't really use it because it costs so much. I know that it is not harshly comped in swedish lists, so I would take one then.


Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:40 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

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10 witches with musicians make great chaff-brooms, frenzy-blockers, and mobile cover for large combat blocks.


Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:24 am
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I've instagibbed Warsphinxes with small units of Witches :twisted:

ASF, High Initiative, Poison, Multiattack Core Infantry FTW :mrgreen:

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Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:01 pm
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Trainee Warrior

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Vulcan wrote:
10 witches with musicians make great chaff-brooms, frenzy-blockers, and mobile cover for large combat blocks.


So 5x2 formation I'm assuming?

T.D. wrote:
I've instagibbed Warsphinxes with small units of Witches :twisted:

ASF, High Initiative, Poison, Multiattack Core Infantry FTW :mrgreen:


So again like Vulcan stated, just 10 Witches with musician works well against this?


Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:12 pm
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5 x 2 Witches are good chaff sweepers.

To be more able to threaten monsters you would want a little more;

6 x 2 or 7 x 2.

Experiment for yourself :)

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Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:50 pm
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Executioner

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T.D. wrote:
5 x 2 Witches are good chaff sweepers.

To be more able to threaten monsters you would want a little more;

6 x 2 or 7 x 2.

Experiment for yourself :)


+1

I usually bulk my witches a little from 10, just because couple of extra witches sustaining full front rank after some combat rounds is awesome. Soft infantry in ranks of five usually kill 2-3 witches per round, and TStomping monsters usually kill 6-10 models in one round, so having only few more counts. Usually when my witches can sustain full front rank they inflict enough casualties to win the fight (monsters aside)

I prefer 12 with musician because they cost 142 points, which is under 150 points ideal limit. Here where I live tournament points are decided with full 150 point diffference. By having your chaff cost less than that you can some times get one tournament point with sneaky difference in victory points. It is conditional though. Of course you dont want expensive chaff anyway


Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:55 am
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Similar to what others have said, I've found 7x2 to be extremely effective. I have run 2 units of 14 with just musicians before and I really liked what they did. If all 14 witches can get into combat, you get 28 attacks, which is pretty nasty. I like 14 because you can lose a full 7 before your effectiveness really starts to drop off since the front row is 3 attacks a piece and the back is only 1. Two units makes it hard for your opponent to kill enough off the neutralize both units. And if they're killing witches, your other units are being ignored.

14 witches are enough to take out most basic infantry, skaven, undead, humans, etc. If you get off just 1 hex or augment spell, you make them really deadly too, like the withering, wildform, or even miasma (making opponents hit on 5s).


Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:41 pm
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Ryank wrote:

Don't want to buy the CoB model so that is out but going with 28 (2x14) or 2 units of 14 (7x2) seems right with only a musician I'm assuming.


You can always make one. :)

But if your newer to the hobby you might not have enough bits and such. But otherwise its pretty easy.
You pretty much just need a small bowl for the blood. It's pulled by the power of khaine so wheels are optional.


Sat May 09, 2015 5:09 am
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The_Peacemaker wrote:
Ryank wrote:

Don't want to buy the CoB model so that is out but going with 28 (2x14) or 2 units of 14 (7x2) seems right with only a musician I'm assuming.


You can always make one. :)

But if your newer to the hobby you might not have enough bits and such. But otherwise its pretty easy.
You pretty much just need a small bowl for the blood. It's pulled by the power of khaine so wheels are optional.


+1

Making a workable CoB is not too hard. You can find alot of old CoB on ebay pretty cheap and just mount it on a homemade wagon with the appropriate base dimensions. Add some witch elves and you are good to go. My first CoB/BWS is the standard one. My second is a kitbashed one that took me half the time to put together than the normal one.


Mon May 11, 2015 4:10 pm
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