Crypt Horrors/Beasts of Nurgle (High T and A units)

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Coop
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Crypt Horrors/Beasts of Nurgle (High T and A units)

Post by Coop »

What have people been doing to combat things like beasts of Nurgle and crypt horrors. I have been unable to come up with any consistent ways to deal with them (except for purple sun/pit of shades).

Both units are S4 T5 with regeneration saves (beasts are better with their regeneration and ward). They have 3-4 attacks per model, and have poison. Most of the standard models (witches, CoK, executioners, etc.) seem like unideal choices because they will take so much damage in return. With 4 wounds on beasts and 3 on crypt horrors, if someone runs a pack of 4-8, they're almost always going to have enough left after the initial charge to hit back and deal a lot of damage.

Have people just been avoiding beasts/crypt horrors or tossing a lot of magic at them when available?
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Re: Crypt Horrors/Beasts of Nurgle (High T and A units)

Post by Thraundil »

Well you pretty much said it. Avoid it, and throw I tests after them. Otherwise, witch elves "can" knock a punch out of them through volume of attacks. Lets math? Let us assume the opponent is crypt horrors and they are in a 2x4 formation. They come at the ridiulous price of 305 points (I had to doublecheck to be sure... WOW are you kidding)

Anyways that is 25 witch elves with full command. In horde formation: 46 attacks (incl champ).
Hitting on 3's with reroll ~ 41 hits, hereof ~7 poison. 34 hits wounding on 6's rerolling 1's ~ 7 more wounds. If you can reduce T to 4 via soulblight, its 14 more wounds.
No SB: 14 wounds, 5+ regen, about 9 wounds go through. 3 models gone. <-- 0,195 wounds after save per attack.
SB: 21 wounds, 5+ regen, about 14 wounds go through resulting in 4 models gone and one severely hurting. <-- 0,3 wounds after save per attack.

Return attacks:
No SB: 15 attacks at 4+, 7,5 hits wounding at 3+, 5 wounds or 5 dead witches. Then 4 stomps at 4+, for lets call it 3 more dead, 8 in total.
SB: Still the same hit and stomp count, but now wounding at 4+: 6 dead witches in total.

Witches charge, no SB: 9 + 1 (charge) + 1 (banner) - 8 (8 casualties) = win by 3. Another crypt horror goes poof to CR, leaving 4 to fight in the next round. Witches will again land 0,195 wounds for each 38 attacks (losing back rank members mean almost nothing for their punch!), landing another 7 wounds removing a further 2 models. There are 2 crypt horrors left, who will struggle to even make enough CR to stay alive. Maybe one crypt horror will survive for a 3rd combat round.

With soulblight, the witches win more convincingly.

Anyways. Witches are "unideal" choices? Not so much. Statistically, even though they only wound on 6's, they pump out such a high volume of attacks that they will severely hurt the crypt horrors. Beasts of nurgle are another story, since they regen on a 4+, but they also cost 60 pts per model meaning we can afford alot more witches too. The witches, however, are at risk for losing the first combat round against beasts, so should not be sent in unless there is a soulblight sure to go through.
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Re: Crypt Horrors/Beasts of Nurgle (High T and A units)

Post by Lord Drakon »

Another much cheaper option is 10 sisters of slaughter with flaming banner (180 points)

They do 6 wounds on average (hit 2+ and wound 5+) with re-roll and murderous prowess.
In return Cyrpt Horrors kill around 2 (hit 5+ and wound 3+) because of 4+ ward save. Another one crumbles.

They should have killed the 8 Crypt Horros in three rounds of combat, taking 5 casualties in return.
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Coop
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Re: Crypt Horrors/Beasts of Nurgle (High T and A units)

Post by Coop »

Thanks for the suggestions. It seems witches are more effective than I initially thought. I think avoiding them will probably be my best bet next time and I'll try taking them out if everything else is under control.
Last edited by Coop on Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crypt Horrors/Beasts of Nurgle (High T and A units)

Post by Marchosias »

Witches strike first. There will be only five horrors left when they get to attack which only means 15 attacks + 4 stomps just as Thraundil calculated.
Of course, if you fluff a little with the witches and six horrors remain to attack back then the fight might go wrong but you can mitigate this danger easily. Drop a spell there (any hex or augment should do), wound the horrors somewhat prior combat or give the witches the flaming banner and you should win convincingly.
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Re: Crypt Horrors/Beasts of Nurgle (High T and A units)

Post by anglais »

exes are good enough for killing crypt horrors. 30 attacks are enough to crumble a unit of 8 without loosing the killing potential. with 10 you will need either to soften the unit or to bring more attacks.
the best asnwer for BoN is peggy characrer with 1+ rerrollable armour. I was using master with halberd, it takes him some time but he wins.
witches are very good against both units, especially if you can het soulblight in (and you usually can).
this is without flaming banner, as I dislike it. my regular opponents do not charge witches with such units.
I like to win, but not by playing the limit of the rules
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Re: Crypt Horrors/Beasts of Nurgle (High T and A units)

Post by Saintofm »

I am assuming they are inititive 2 or 3?

What the others said.

Witch ELves with flaming attacks (either banner or Swords of Ruin spell) tend to kill otherwise unkillable close combat monsters, and was perfected with dealing with Skaven Pit Horrors
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Re: Crypt Horrors/Beasts of Nurgle (High T and A units)

Post by Gidean »

I have to say the title of the thread caught my attention. But then you were only talking about.....toughness and attacks... :P
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Re: Crypt Horrors/Beasts of Nurgle (High T and A units)

Post by Demetrius »

A 1+ rerollable character will pin them in place, but won't win enough to crumble or pop them. Worthwhile on a block of 6-8 of them, obviously not worthwhile against 1-2 BON because the master will cost more. Just watch out, a simple Plague of Rust or Enchanted Blades can ruin your day if you rely on this tactic.

Sisters of Slaughter can do it, or big units of Witches. Flaming banner is obviously helpful, but the BON ward makes still hurts.

I personally wouldn't waste time trying to kill these sorts of unit in combat. They are far too difficult to kill for their points value. Try to block them/ chaff them up/ magic them off. Bad players will try to engage them, get bogged down indefinitely and then get flank charged by things like Plague Drones, Bloodcrushers or Greater Demons.
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Re: Crypt Horrors/Beasts of Nurgle (High T and A units)

Post by anglais »

I am speaking about unit of 3 BoN.
the best way to kill 1-2 in HTH is static. RBT/magic is recommended.
6-8 are enough points to commit good units.
I am fine if my witches are countercharged while still engaged with BoN as anything in DoC list has less staying power and helps to crumble BoN. Usual mistake is to charge in with drones.
I like to win, but not by playing the limit of the rules
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