End Times Archaon
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Re: End Times Archaon
Unbound in Fantasy?
I'm done. Will not touch this.
I'm done. Will not touch this.
- Amboadine
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Re: End Times Archaon
Searinox Nagharha wrote:....edit... "everybody dies! Except one man with an orb."
... maybe im missing something
No, this pretty much sums up 'The End Times'
Re: End Times Archaon
The End is not surprising.
The entire background of the warhammer world states that Chaos is going to engulf and overwhelm the world.
And after all the battles are fought, nothing stands.
The End is logical and foretold.
What is not logical and acceptable is selling 5 (badly written) books of scheming, slaughter and courage, to say: everybody dies and Chaos Wins.
One of Fantasy's clichee is that prophecies are fulfilled and heroes accomplish their destiny.
What destiny is that of the Witch King!? To rule elvenkind for a few weeks before annihilation?!
And Asuryan prepared him with 5000 yrs of suffering, just to fullfill that?!
Teclis has to fail miserably all his scheming??!! And he's unable to control a wind of magic and gets killed??!! After absorbing Lileath's might??!!!
In all GW Fluff he's always been the smartest, most powerful, farsighted Mage of the world, and he's destined to fail??!!
Tiryon is the worst failure of all. Put a little pressure on him, and he turns into a slavering beast!!!! The purest champion of elvenkind loses all hope and accomplishes nothing??!
Bah.............................................
The entire background of the warhammer world states that Chaos is going to engulf and overwhelm the world.
And after all the battles are fought, nothing stands.
The End is logical and foretold.
What is not logical and acceptable is selling 5 (badly written) books of scheming, slaughter and courage, to say: everybody dies and Chaos Wins.
One of Fantasy's clichee is that prophecies are fulfilled and heroes accomplish their destiny.
What destiny is that of the Witch King!? To rule elvenkind for a few weeks before annihilation?!
And Asuryan prepared him with 5000 yrs of suffering, just to fullfill that?!
Teclis has to fail miserably all his scheming??!! And he's unable to control a wind of magic and gets killed??!! After absorbing Lileath's might??!!!
In all GW Fluff he's always been the smartest, most powerful, farsighted Mage of the world, and he's destined to fail??!!
Tiryon is the worst failure of all. Put a little pressure on him, and he turns into a slavering beast!!!! The purest champion of elvenkind loses all hope and accomplishes nothing??!
Bah.............................................
... and Justice for all!!!
.... and enthusiast member of the league of extraordinary druchii gentlemen
.... and enthusiast member of the league of extraordinary druchii gentlemen
- flatworldsedge
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Re: End Times Archaon
At first (well from ET - Khaine) I was monitoring my reaction to the whole ET arc in terms of the DABDA framework - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model
I genuinely hovered in the "acceptance" stage for a few weeks in Khaine, having broadly rebuilt some personal fluff I was pretty happy with - not least as I'd decided to ignore utterly the whole Naggaroth situation.
Then this happens, and, well, frankly I've just a line through the whole thing. They've written a generally very good quality rulebook and I'll keep using that. The rest of didn't happen. That looks like a new phase of denial, perhaps, until you realise that unlike the various griefs dealt with by DABDA, we can genuinely ignore GW if we choose. When I first thought of ignoring them and the ET story, it was out of outraged protest, but now it's simply because I don't like or believe their story anymore.
Hope this doesn't come across as mad or sad - kind of relaxed about it, and happy with the world as I've decided it's going to be in my campaigns.
I genuinely hovered in the "acceptance" stage for a few weeks in Khaine, having broadly rebuilt some personal fluff I was pretty happy with - not least as I'd decided to ignore utterly the whole Naggaroth situation.
Then this happens, and, well, frankly I've just a line through the whole thing. They've written a generally very good quality rulebook and I'll keep using that. The rest of didn't happen. That looks like a new phase of denial, perhaps, until you realise that unlike the various griefs dealt with by DABDA, we can genuinely ignore GW if we choose. When I first thought of ignoring them and the ET story, it was out of outraged protest, but now it's simply because I don't like or believe their story anymore.
Hope this doesn't come across as mad or sad - kind of relaxed about it, and happy with the world as I've decided it's going to be in my campaigns.
Veysha Everkiss
Plog: Veysha Everkiss and the Clan of the Shadow Fox
Battle Reports: vs. Beastmen; 2000 pts, vs. High Elves; 2000 pts, vs. Beastmen; 3000 pts
Plog: Veysha Everkiss and the Clan of the Shadow Fox
Battle Reports: vs. Beastmen; 2000 pts, vs. High Elves; 2000 pts, vs. Beastmen; 3000 pts
Re: End Times Archaon
Cue speculation that the chap clutching the orb is how the Emperor in 40k originated...
Where's the facepalm smiley on here?
Where's the facepalm smiley on here?
- T.D.
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Re: End Times Archaon
Few more tidbits from Warseer regarding the internal designers view of the ET.
Also, anyone fancy a new forum Avatar?
Also, anyone fancy a new forum Avatar?
OldHammer Advanced Ruleset
- Adding Tactical Depth to Your Favourite Tabletop Wargame
- Adding Tactical Depth to Your Favourite Tabletop Wargame
- Searinox Nagharha
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Re: End Times Archaon
Well I can imagine they are pissed. I mean... who isn't? Well... propably the top brass that came up with it but it couldn't feel right as a writer to write that rightfully wrong ending. Woukd get right in my nerves to write it myself.
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Group 41- Name: Searinox Nagharha - Shade
WS:5 S:3 T:3 D:4 I:4
Equipment: Long sword; Falchion (family heirloom), Very Good Sabre, Short sword, Dagger, Throwing Dagger (4) SeaDragon Cloak, Chain
Inventory: 30 gold (214 still to be paid), Silver Bracelet, several flagons: 1x Strength potion, 3x Courage potion, 3x Healing Potion.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Acrobatics, Basic Stealth
- Haagrum
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Re: End Times Archaon
Ming wrote:The End is not surprising.
The entire background of the warhammer world states that Chaos is going to engulf and overwhelm the world.
And after all the battles are fought, nothing stands.
The End is logical and foretold.
What is not logical and acceptable is selling 5 (badly written) books of scheming, slaughter and courage, to say: everybody dies and Chaos Wins.
If you knew the end was logical and foretold, why would you complain about the ending being exactly what was logical and foretold?
Ming wrote:One of Fantasy's clichee is that prophecies are fulfilled and heroes accomplish their destiny.
Ming wrote:What destiny is that of the Witch King!? To rule elvenkind for a few weeks before annihilation?!
And Asuryan prepared him with 5000 yrs of suffering, just to fullfill that?!
No. Really, just no.
Ming wrote:Teclis has to fail miserably all his scheming??!! And he's unable to control a wind of magic and gets killed??!! After absorbing Lileath's might??!!!
In all GW Fluff he's always been the smartest, most powerful, farsighted Mage of the world, and he's destined to fail??!!
Everyone except Teclis thought victory would be impossible. Usually, when one person disagrees with absolutely everyone else, they are wrong.
Ming wrote:Tiryon is the worst failure of all. Put a little pressure on him, and he turns into a slavering beast!!!! The purest champion of elvenkind loses all hope and accomplishes nothing??!
No argument here.
"The wrath of a good man is not to be feared. They have too many rules."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
Re: End Times Archaon
Hi Haagrum!
In my post I wasn't complaining about a logical and foretold ending.
I was pissed off about the decision to make 5 fluff books just to tell us Chaos Wins and everybody dies.
All the actions of heroes and villains described in detail are completely worthless.
Those books could be justified only if Chaos won and someone else survived.
GW could have Just told us: sorry, current background won't be implemented and developed in 9th edition.
We'll start a completely new background.
I insist that Malekith's fate is simply ridiculous. As his fluff has always been.
In my post I wasn't complaining about a logical and foretold ending.
I was pissed off about the decision to make 5 fluff books just to tell us Chaos Wins and everybody dies.
All the actions of heroes and villains described in detail are completely worthless.
Those books could be justified only if Chaos won and someone else survived.
GW could have Just told us: sorry, current background won't be implemented and developed in 9th edition.
We'll start a completely new background.
I insist that Malekith's fate is simply ridiculous. As his fluff has always been.
... and Justice for all!!!
.... and enthusiast member of the league of extraordinary druchii gentlemen
.... and enthusiast member of the league of extraordinary druchii gentlemen
- Haagrum
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Re: End Times Archaon
Understood, Ming - perhaps I overreacted. Reasonable minds may differ on Malekith's ultimate fate, after all.
Things I liked about the resolution of the End Times:
Things I disliked about the resolution of the End Times:
Things I liked about the resolution of the End Times:
Things I disliked about the resolution of the End Times:
"The wrath of a good man is not to be feared. They have too many rules."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
Re: End Times Archaon
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
Re: End Times Archaon
Reading all the comments on various forum, many people look sad and upset.
Reading some rumors, it seems that 9th ed is going to cover three periods: pre-ET, ET apocalypse, and post ET (in a skirmish game).
It this comes true, then we can keep playing as before, with only a minor difference: before, we were already told that Chaos would win ultimately and the fight was a desperate one; now, we know that Chaos will win and we know how the fight developed and was lost.
Is knowing the end of a story enough to lose any interest into playing a part of it?
In GW, Empire players always knew how Marius Altdorf Elector Count of Averland was killed, did it prevent them to play Marius Altdorf rules?
In litterature, Gods of Walhalla knew beforehand that Ragnarok meant the end of them all, did it prevent them to prepare for the final, desperate fight?
In RL, you know you will die ultimately, does it prevent you to live happily?
Reading some rumors, it seems that 9th ed is going to cover three periods: pre-ET, ET apocalypse, and post ET (in a skirmish game).
It this comes true, then we can keep playing as before, with only a minor difference: before, we were already told that Chaos would win ultimately and the fight was a desperate one; now, we know that Chaos will win and we know how the fight developed and was lost.
Is knowing the end of a story enough to lose any interest into playing a part of it?
In GW, Empire players always knew how Marius Altdorf Elector Count of Averland was killed, did it prevent them to play Marius Altdorf rules?
In litterature, Gods of Walhalla knew beforehand that Ragnarok meant the end of them all, did it prevent them to prepare for the final, desperate fight?
In RL, you know you will die ultimately, does it prevent you to live happily?
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
- Daeron
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Re: End Times Archaon
But Calisson! I absolutely refused to read books on Malus Darkblade, because they happened in the past and I know he will survive (at least, until the ET books).
I absolutely never ever wanted to read books on Tyrion and Teclis because I know they survived the trilogy and how it ended, as it was spoilered in the 8th ed book. The battle of finuvial plain in the book was pointless, as we knew the outcome. The passages of Aenarion in the Tyrion and Teclis books, and in the Sundering were of no interest to me at all because I knew how it would end. Like duh. And it ruined my models too. Like that old Morathi model on foot is entirely broken because there are no rules for her on foot. I could never bring myself to use it as "just a cool looking sorceress". I don't want to judge models by their proxyable game value.
Same for that limited edition Malus Darkblade on foot. He's too cool to be used for anything else but Malus Darkblade.
And it's absolutely offensive that G.W. tells its investors we act like collectors more than pure gamers.
Sarcasm. Ahh.
But I'm surprised, indeed, that people are upset about the loss of some chars. I don't recall our special characters being particularly loved before the ET. I think the ET books are just upsetting because fluff didn't move forward for ... a decade? And now that it does, it does so at a grand scale. And it changes a lot of the fluff
People invest in their army, to make it fit a theme or part of the fluff and now those roots are changed or destroyed. Personally I don't have an issue with my own fluff. I always used to focus on the past of my army, and how it came to be as it is today. Now, with the ET, I can move the army forward and see how the ET will affect it. And some bits and pieces will remain.
I still have to read the final book (well I started reading it) but something puzzles me about the rumours and spoilers. On one hand everyone was convinced 9th would be played post ET in bubblehammer. Now everyone is convinced it is indeed the end and there is nothing left. At least one theory must be wrong.
If Chaos indeed floods the world, then aren't we back at square 1? I remember 6th edition, where the story or background seems to "start" at the birth of sigmar who brings light to a world overrun by chaos.
Only later is it revealed that there are Elves and Dwarfs that are older than human kind. And then Lizardmen that are even older. Etc.
Perhaps this is the start of something new.
I absolutely never ever wanted to read books on Tyrion and Teclis because I know they survived the trilogy and how it ended, as it was spoilered in the 8th ed book. The battle of finuvial plain in the book was pointless, as we knew the outcome. The passages of Aenarion in the Tyrion and Teclis books, and in the Sundering were of no interest to me at all because I knew how it would end. Like duh. And it ruined my models too. Like that old Morathi model on foot is entirely broken because there are no rules for her on foot. I could never bring myself to use it as "just a cool looking sorceress". I don't want to judge models by their proxyable game value.
Same for that limited edition Malus Darkblade on foot. He's too cool to be used for anything else but Malus Darkblade.
And it's absolutely offensive that G.W. tells its investors we act like collectors more than pure gamers.
Sarcasm. Ahh.
But I'm surprised, indeed, that people are upset about the loss of some chars. I don't recall our special characters being particularly loved before the ET. I think the ET books are just upsetting because fluff didn't move forward for ... a decade? And now that it does, it does so at a grand scale. And it changes a lot of the fluff
People invest in their army, to make it fit a theme or part of the fluff and now those roots are changed or destroyed. Personally I don't have an issue with my own fluff. I always used to focus on the past of my army, and how it came to be as it is today. Now, with the ET, I can move the army forward and see how the ET will affect it. And some bits and pieces will remain.
I still have to read the final book (well I started reading it) but something puzzles me about the rumours and spoilers. On one hand everyone was convinced 9th would be played post ET in bubblehammer. Now everyone is convinced it is indeed the end and there is nothing left. At least one theory must be wrong.
If Chaos indeed floods the world, then aren't we back at square 1? I remember 6th edition, where the story or background seems to "start" at the birth of sigmar who brings light to a world overrun by chaos.
Only later is it revealed that there are Elves and Dwarfs that are older than human kind. And then Lizardmen that are even older. Etc.
Perhaps this is the start of something new.
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.
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Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
- Lord Drakon
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Re: End Times Archaon
I will face the Dwarf throng of Metal tomorrow with my normal Dark Elf list, first game End Times, any advise ?
Re: End Times Archaon
Max out on cold ones
Re: End Times Archaon
Is there a thread anywhere summarising/discussing these (utterly ridiculous) new rules? I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to think about it. I mean, I just about managed to come to terms with the events of the third end times book, and then I was out of warhammer for a while when the next two came out, and I come back to find (from what I can tell) the rules for army selection had been hung, drawn, quartered, burned, eaten, excreted, buried, and then consumed by chaos.
Surely the new rules depicted in the image posted by Amboadine just removed a significant portion of the game? Building a balanced list was one of the most important parts, but now it seems very much like you can read your army book, identify the best unit in there, and just take that as many times as you damn well please. Or maybe I'm overreacting and this is all totally okay and I can still write a balanced 3000 point list that won't be shredded by a single 3000 point unit of juggernaughts of khorne. Yup.
Surely the new rules depicted in the image posted by Amboadine just removed a significant portion of the game? Building a balanced list was one of the most important parts, but now it seems very much like you can read your army book, identify the best unit in there, and just take that as many times as you damn well please. Or maybe I'm overreacting and this is all totally okay and I can still write a balanced 3000 point list that won't be shredded by a single 3000 point unit of juggernaughts of khorne. Yup.
"When it comes to besting the enemy, there's no such thing as 'overkill.'" - Good ol' Master Bronk
Also here's a PLOG: http://www.druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=76272
Also here's a PLOG: http://www.druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=76272
Re: End Times Archaon
I like that Tyrion and Allarielle hold hands and walk off into oblivion as Malekith does a scene form the Mummy Returns (Malekith being Imotep of course).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tLmqXEGnrc
So suck it T.D. !! Tyrion wins!
Of course ALL of us Warhammer fans lose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tLmqXEGnrc
So suck it T.D. !! Tyrion wins!
Of course ALL of us Warhammer fans lose.
- Haagrum
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Re: End Times Archaon
Gidean wrote:So suck it T.D. !! Tyrion wins!
I'm sorry, who's the Eternity King, married to Alarielle, the last Incarnate to perish, AND rocking the most broken rules for a single model and for a formation in the game?
"The wrath of a good man is not to be feared. They have too many rules."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."