A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think?

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think?

Post by Saintofm »

What it says on the tin. Its been a few years since we got our current Dark ELf Book, so what do we think about it.

Any of it.

Units: Dreadlord/Master.

Magic Items:

Few complaints with the magic items, though wished they had some that boosted the amount of dice you could get.

Find te lack of standards bad, espesialy since I have Wariors of CHaos, Orcs and Goblins, Ogre Kingdoms, and at one point a Dwarf Book before I gave it to a friend moving out of state, (all current), most of those have at least 2 standards. Granted I think the other two elf books, also have, have only one standard, but still. More then one, and I wished they had at least a hydra banner to get me working with, but most of the other standards I can easily put on my special or even a few core choices. That and I think they managed to neuter the Standard of Nagaryth a little bit as the ability to give other units nearby a +1 to their Battle Resolution is great.

Magic Weapons: Chillblade no complaints, but the Hydra blade I think is the end result of a roid rage: Alot of potential, qruickly burns out. Also, High ELves and wood elves can have magic bows but we loose Life Taker?

ARmor: What no +1 tougness heavy armor, or Regneration Heavy armor? Come on! It would be less overkill then the Black Amulet!

Black Amulet: Alway s ake it with my cavalry dreadlord, but it is overkill. Even if he can't wound with his ogre blade, THAT WILL.

Also like CLoak of Twilight.

Also miss alot of the extras for the Assassins and With Elves in the Gifts of Khaine.

Arcane: I don't have much complaints, I just miss the cheap get +1 spell item. That and Focus Familiar.

I like he point coast, I like that i can have a charecter with a 2+ armior save without any magic items, but I think some of the items they have available is lacking. Most of it is in the common section and that is find and all but I like a little more variety, or potency in their equipment. Still, their selection of common gear and mounts are awsome.

Also why does the female mini that is labeled "Dreadlord" looks like an escaped slave girl and would be better labeled as a Death Hag? The Dark Eldar Succubus has more Armor and clothing then her, and SHE IS A SUCCUBUS! Yes I know not the one of legend, but when something named after sexual lust incarnate is more conservative you know you have a problem.

Sorceress and Supreme Sporceress and Dark Magic: I like the cheaper price tag point wise.

I like how they have all the main lores, and I can see how they can use them. SHadow (trickery), Death (obvious) were definite Dark ELf Lores ,Fire with its destructive tendencies and Metal with its alchemic were also good mixes. However the others, Beasts and Life, is good as it shows the elves COnqoring the natural world, and Heavens, they scry the furture. Light not so sure, but hay they are close to the Northern wastse: Might as well fight Daemons with something.

Most magic items previously Mentioned.

Dark Magic, yeah, I have some mixed feelings.

I have nothing to complain about the signature spells, or the Lore attribute, or Black Horror. I like how they simplified the description for blade wind. Word of Pain I really like the boosted vertion, and Shroud of Despair I have yet to use enough to get good feeling one way or another.

I do however liked soul stealer better when it was painfuly close range, effected everyone in the target unit, and could be used in close combat. Granted if you go against a hoard of Goblins, chances are you are getting those ten wounds, but I would prefer the double dwound count one for the versitlity of the other.

As for CHill Wind, I Started when it was a S3 30" range magic missle. I was there when it was a S4 24" range magic missle. I was thee when those two prevented shooting shooting for that unit.

I can live with reducing the Ballistic Skill -1, even though that leaves most War Machiens out. I like 2D6 hits. I dislike the Strength 2 as that means I need to role a 5 to wound against elves. [spend five minutes doing my best to emulate a rage filled death metal roar.] What it Khaine's Left Pinky is wrong with that? This is makign it almost completly seless against Dwarves, and barly functioning against Empire, Brettonia, or elves.

Beastlord: Never used, but I think it has potential.

Fleet Master: When a hero charecter who is a cCaptain of a black ark is more badass, you have a problem. When an Master with mundane equipment is on equal footing its a problem. Just give your Dreadlord a Sea Dragon Cloak and pretend this land lubber was keelhauled.

Assassin: I like they can take magic items again. I still wished they had some of the Gifts of Khaine. I also wished they could have both 2 hand weapons and hand bow, but we get what we get.

Death Hag: Still want to use her, although I think they probably could have kept some of the abilities from the last edition as Bound Spells this one.

DreadSpears: Still Like them

Bleak Swords: Like the Variety. Have their moments.

Corsairs: Love the 4+ armor save, miss the slavers rule and the Sea Serpent Standard.

Witch Elves: Never used them, YET, but will contimplate it:

Dark Riders: Like em, think they have their uses, and love how all tooled up they are still fast cavalry.

Cold one Chariot: Still like em.

Cold one Knights: Unit of 15, with BSB and Dreadlord, get the charge in and you should be good. Still have some weaknessess, but are still good. Give them the Ranger's standard and call it a day.

Eecutioners: Still find ways to surpass my expectations and be awsome. Give them the Razor standard and Charos no problems.

SHades are great, a bit pricy, but like em.

Harpies: They got screwed over. While I like the number cap has been removed, the fact of the matter is the ones in Storm of Magic have upgrades which therefor makes them the better buy. Even if they only got poinson attacks, I think the Beastmasters would have done something to make these lovlies even deadlier. Also same price as a Black Guard and Sister or Slaughter and none of the fun extras. Rip off!

Scoruge Runner: Never tried in an actual game yet.

Hydra: Love that its special, love the new rules that make out hydras awsome.

rare: Love Kharibdyss mini, though stil havn't felded it in battle (its been a paper wait for my GM's maps for Pathfinder, but that is a tail for another post).

Never had a chance to use the others yet. Love Bloodwrack Medusa look, and I guess they had her built for those who just bought the kit for the couldron, but presently using a Bastadon to fill the Shrine role (If Chaos Shrines can be carried on the backs of Cyclopses, I can have nature's version of a tank carry her.

The attendents were just turned into large newts....they haven't gotten better yet).

Still need to try Sisters.

I will go into fluff when it is not 12"15 in the morning and my brain tells me its going to work again.
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Phierlihy »

My only complaint, and this is minor to be sure, is Black Horror has traditionally always been the most frightening spell in the game but right now it is fairly tame (and the Fleetmaster which I can only assume is a typo that would be corrected if GW ever decided to put out an FAQ). Otherwise we still have plenty of variety in terms of styles of play, tactics, a strong magic phase, plenty of good monsters...what's not to like? The new models looks very, very good with our oldest model is now the Harpy but they just sacrifice themselves every game anyways. I think our book is great!
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Searinox Nagharha »

so far I only have 2 'complaints'. The first beeing that I truly miss alot of our old Magic Items, tho this has happened to all new books so i can live with that ;)
Second is the Fleetmaster... Sooooo much potential... if only he had either A) 100 points Magic Allowance or B) was a Hero choice (and maybe could be upgraded to BSB ;) )
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by T.D. »

Searinox Nagharha wrote: or B) was a Hero choice (and maybe could be upgraded to BSB ;) )


Good call.
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Amarel »

I have a few issues (with the acceptance that we are a 'top tier' army, so this is to do with internal balance).

1) Fleetmaster (obviously) - he was clearly bumped from a Hero to a Lord at the last minute and needed changes weren't made.
2) Beastmaster is lacking the 'thing' that makes him worth taking, he's just not really an option.
3) Our Sorceresses are missing a competitive way to boost their PD - the Sacrificial Dagger was over-nerfed (a 3+ for the effect would have been fine).
4) Spearman & Warriors are overpriced, shaving a point off them would be enough to make them an option.
5) Harpies are overpriced (again probably by just a point to make them an option).
6) Too much in Rare that competes. Yes, Warlocks are very good, but if the Kharibdyss had a small tweak (poison is a bit odd on it), the Sisters moved to Special (swap with 2 point cheaper Harpies) and the Medusa was dropped by 20 points, that would make for a much tougher selection process.

Still, it's not like we don't have a decent-enought book already, but who doesn't want things that are even better :).
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by toots »

dark magic is a bit weird, but i suppose they had to make it different to the existing lores. it's not great tbh, there's one must-stop spell and that's WoP. doombolt is ok but blasty magic isn't as scary as a boosted WoP.

i wouldn't bother with core troops other than witch elves, dark riders and ten crossbowmen.

love it though, returned to warhammer last year and DE are still the most stylish army to play IMO!
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Phierlihy »

I'm going to absolutely disagree with you toots! Word of Pain is a great spell but the truly hidden gem in there is Cloak of Despair. I'm constructing a post on it as we speak but unless the enemy is Immune to Psychology, Cloak of Despair is not only a game-winning spell but I'd argue it is one of the top five best spells in the game! None of the spells are junk but we have two great ones and the rest are mid-tier so I can't disparage the lore.
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by T.D. »

Phierlihy wrote:I'm constructing a post on it as we speak


Look forward to this :)

Another good thing about Dark Magic is that the Tome of Furion guarantees that you get the crucial spell you want; Shroud or Ouch!
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by toots »

shroud, right? you mean shroud? or is this a joke at my expense?!!!! philly you fruity man! i suspect you are teasing me! and that you are in cahoots - CAHOOTS - with T.D! in all seriousness though, i would really like to read your thoughts (read your thoughts?) on how to use this spell effectively.

i'd add that i think there should have been lore restrictions for DE. spin it any way you want but we probably shouldn't be using life or light magic. death, shadow, metal, fire and *perhaps* heavens i can see DE using.

just my views!
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Saintofm »

Ok, can go with named Chaecters.

I Don't mind Malekeith, though he can be pricy. Have Yet to play or read end of times so I am mostly going on 1D4chan for that info, but what I see in the current book is a decent close combat heavy magic user. Again Dark Magic, mixed feelings, but like his idea.

Morathi: Its odd, another combat magic user with some mixed feelings. I miss her loremaster, but see she has alot more potential with casting and can mix an d match as the individual game needs be.

Helebrom: A Glass Cannon with a ton of S10 attacks with the potential getting more. Other then that she has practicly no protection outside of being on a couldron of Khaine.

Malus Darkblade: A combat lord that is has a 2+ armor save, a sword that ignores armor and reroles failed to wound rolls, and a mount that makes a unit auto pass stupidity tests (so they keep their Imune to Psycology but don't meander after some high elf reflescting some light on the floor ala how to train your dragon).

Shadowblade: Over priced. I can give an assassin 2 hand weapons, killing blow, and the Talisom of Preservation (which has 1 higher point on Ward Save, and can kill just about any carecter out there.

Tullaris: Just did a game against him last night. His giving a whole unit he is in frnezy, say a groupd of S6 executioners with Killing Blow, is a blennder meant for monsters and high armor just waiting to happen. he still has a low armor save, and probabkly could go higher.

Kouren: Take what we had as the unit champion last edition, and give him proper character stats. Sounds usable.


Fluff: Whats the point of adding all this new, thought provoking and the deepest level of background and internal mythology building if YOU ARE JUST GOING TO KILL THEM ALL IN THE THE SAME EDITION! It would be like: Hay Kids, you beat the Quite Witch at the end of the book. Now as you become Kings and Queens worthy of praise, the plague hits and everything you know and love dies and you have a kingdom of corpses to rule over. Have fun.

Not sure about te changes to Nethu. I like the army of Dark Pegasi, but I also like him playing a lute to get you in the underworld.

I love how they finally gave Malekeith a wife. I wouldn't care if he swung the other way, I just have it hard to believe that the grand geneal of the pre sundering Elves, son of the greatest hero of the elves who was trained by him and fought along side with him and probably rode on his coat tails; and learned enough party tricks from his mother to impress a few drunk elvin college girls, and the one that lead the assault on a corrupted Naggaryth would be single. Even if it was just a political marriage, you think Morathi wouldn't want a grand baby to mold to her liking?
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Scythe »

@Saintofm I'm pretty sure it's well established in the lore that Mally had many grandbabies. Just none that were... legitimate ;)
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by direweasel »

My perspective will be different than many of the rest of you because I skipped an edition or two, but I think the fact that all elves have ASF and reroll to hit most of the time is a major game changer for me. It makes elves much better in combat, as they should be. WS9 doesn't matter when T3 means you never get to swing.

That makes our entire army immensely better from the start. It means that shooting is less potent by comparison, meaning that an all crossbow army is not an optimal choice (not sure it really ever was). It also means that it's not nearly as important as it used to be whether we charged or not. That really used to be the only way to ensure that we got to swing against many opponents. Heavy Cavalry is less important than it used to be, which is a good thing for us IMO. I like Cold One Knights, but I much prefer having them as a support unit, not as the main focus of the force. Chariots with infantry are very powerful builds if used right.

The Cauldron of Blood is much better now as well, it used to be a fluff-only addition to an army that wasn't worth what you got for the points. Now it makes a witch elf unit into a Cuisinart of doom.

Warlocks are awesome. Warlocks are really really awesome. We already had great fast cavalry, now we have 2 units of it and one is a wizard. You really can't beat that.

In short, it's changed the way I play the army, but in good ways that have given me a lot more options, and it has moved us way up the list of competitive armies. I love it.
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by T.D. »

I really like this 8th book.

A few clangers like the FM and overcosted Medusa, but generally nicely balanced internally and externally. Losing magic items is not fun, but I appreciate that the power went out of gimmicks and into units.

Mr Ward gets my seal of approval with this one :)
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Akholrak »

I love our 8th book. It's got great external balance, and why we have some sub-optimal units i.e. Fleetmaster, Medusa and Scourgerunner, I think the internal balance is good as well. Most units have a role in the army and can perform well on the tabletop. We don't have any must-have choices, either. Whilst Warlocks are very powerful, I'm confident we can be competitive without them.

I'm not a huge fan of magic items, but that seems to be a trend in many army books. I find a lot of the items to be quite lackluster.
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Coop »

This is the first Dark Elf book I have ever had, but I think it's excellent. I love the book because so many of the units are competitive and because there are so many ways to play the army. You can make some of the strongest avoidance lists around or you can put together an infantry based list with ASF blenders that kill a unit before it gets to attack.

In each of the 4 phases of the game, I think we can really excel:

1. Movement - All that fast cav!! And the dark pegasus!
2. Magic - We can take 9 different lores and have warlocks. My other army is daemons of chaos, so being able to take all the BRB lores and having the option to put in relatively cheap/effective casters is excellent.
3. Shooting - 4 bolt throwers and crossbows on everyone allows us to be pretty effective at killing chaff. We can't cannonball monsters, but we have other solutions.
4. Combat - Executioners, witches, warlocks, black guard, etc. can all be really effective in combat without magic support if we make smart charges

I also like that dark elves seem like they can succeed against almost any army. We have answers to mostly everything in this book which is really important. We don't have any Daemons of Chaos vs. Banner of the World Dragon match-ups.

What I don't like:
-I do find the lack of magic banners a little disappointing. Daemons of Chaos lost an incredible amount of customizability in 8th edition and have no magic banners themselves, so I wish dark elves had gotten a couple more.
-I would have liked a couple more competitive magic items. I think the CoK is a no brainer and awesome, but some more unique weapons would have been nice.
-I would have loved for the Cauldron of Blood to be a chariot alone and not require the hag.
-I think black guard should have been S4 base if cold ones and executioners are as well. Even with the accompanying points increase that would have entailed, I think fluff wise they deserve it.

But those are small complaints. It's an excellent book.
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by direweasel »

Coop wrote:-I would have loved for the Cauldron of Blood to be a chariot alone and not require the hag.


I have a hard time justifying this with the fluff, if nothing else. These are really rare and powerful artifacts, sacred to the temples of Khaine. Do you really think you could just "check one out" like a library book? The Hag Queen in charge of that baby is not letting it out of her sight!

Beyond that, it means that the Cauldron comes from character points, just like if it was another monster mount or something like that. Making it a special or even a rare choice doesn't seem to make as much sense to me, although I understand other chariots do that.
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Coop »

direweasel wrote:
Coop wrote:-I would have loved for the Cauldron of Blood to be a chariot alone and not require the hag.


I have a hard time justifying this with the fluff, if nothing else. These are really rare and powerful artifacts, sacred to the temples of Khaine. Do you really think you could just "check one out" like a library book? The Hag Queen in charge of that baby is not letting it out of her sight!

Beyond that, it means that the Cauldron comes from character points, just like if it was another monster mount or something like that. Making it a special or even a rare choice doesn't seem to make as much sense to me, although I understand other chariots do that.


Yeah, that's totally reasonable, I just don't like putting the points into the hag when I'm really just here for the cauldron.
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Kerupto »

Love the book. Our book is brutal. I have built a brand new army since the book and new model range came out. Witches with COB are brutal. Horde of Executioners- also brutal. I used dark magic several times, but my current build includes 2 Level 4's- Life mage on foot in executioners, and Shadow mage on dark pegasus or Morathi. Throw some Bolt throwers, dark riders and warlocks and its a party!
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Saintofm »

Coop wrote:
direweasel wrote:
Coop wrote:-I would have loved for the Cauldron of Blood to be a chariot alone and not require the hag.


I have a hard time justifying this with the fluff, if nothing else. These are really rare and powerful artifacts, sacred to the temples of Khaine. Do you really think you could just "check one out" like a library book? The Hag Queen in charge of that baby is not letting it out of her sight!

Beyond that, it means that the Cauldron comes from character points, just like if it was another monster mount or something like that. Making it a special or even a rare choice doesn't seem to make as much sense to me, although I understand other chariots do that.


Yeah, that's totally reasonable, I just don't like putting the points into the hag when I'm really just here for the cauldron.



Sure because this is a race known for its nobles souls, that takes pride in loyalty and duty, and and not at all a race that has been bread into barley functioning sociopaths.



Another Question: I like how they managed to give the elves a build more akin to Olympic runners, so probably do not having alot of body fat (so not much in the chest region), but is it just me or is Morathi, Queen of seduction, is a bit of a butter-face in this eddition. No one chuck javvalins at me, but her rules indicate she should be a 10 out of 10 in looks alone, the other sorceress minis look better.
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Vulcan »

To be fair, the current Morathi sculpt IS a wee bit outdated...
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Re: A couple of years into Current DE Book, what do we think

Post by Saintofm »

Vulcan wrote:To be fair, the current Morathi sculpt IS a wee bit outdated...


Its not just that. its her face in the current art in our 8th ed DE book.
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