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Tactics vs WOC 
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
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Skullcrushers are the greatest argument for Lore of Metal there can be.

Although a Razor Standard on your Executioners - or a Wyssian's Wildform, or a Power of Darkness (or all of the above) - helps. Mindrazor makes things really fun, especially if the Executioners are frenzied.

Word of Pain, Miasma, Enfeebling Foe, etc. etc. etc. on the Crushers helps reduce the damage you take in return, which increases the chances you'll break them in combat.

Or just use the old double-flee trick on them all game long.


Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:30 am
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Aspiring Brush Master
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Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:19 pm
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Location: In my Armory, protecting my Weed.
I wouldnt drop Mindrazor on Executioners. with them already striking at S6 there are alot of better options out there which all get Rerolls to hit ;)

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Group 41- Name: Searinox Nagharha - Shade
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Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:27 pm
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Corsair
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:20 pm
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Vulcan wrote:
Skullcrushers are the greatest argument for Lore of Metal there can be.

Although a Razor Standard on your Executioners - or a Wyssian's Wildform, or a Power of Darkness (or all of the above) - helps. Mindrazor makes things really fun, especially if the Executioners are frenzied.

Word of Pain, Miasma, Enfeebling Foe, etc. etc. etc. on the Crushers helps reduce the damage you take in return, which increases the chances you'll break them in combat.

Or just use the old double-flee trick on them all game long.


Reaper Bolt Throwers also love to shoot at the Skullcrushers. As you also want them to kill Daemon Princes, Chaos Knights and Warriors, you can't really do anything wrong by fielding them.
Executioners are certainly the best unit you can get into combat with Skullcrushers, just make sure you can either put enough wounds onto them (you need ~4 attacks per wound) or get a meaningful buff into the combat. Mindrazor as already mentioned by Searinox, is much better placed on something else (e.g. Witch Elves), I'd much rather drop a Miasma or Enfeeble into that fight.

Lore of Metal: Is not just good because of Searing Doom. Blades of Aiban are great on Cold One Knights, Executioners, Blackguard and Witch Elves and can also serve to counter the Mark of Nurgle. Plague of Rust can diminish the Armour of Warrior-Blocks and doesn't go away. Scales can greatly improve the staying power of Executioners and Blackguard. Even Transmutation of Lead is not bad, just too expensive for my tastes.

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Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:58 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
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Searinox Nagharha wrote:
I wouldnt drop Mindrazor on Executioners. with them already striking at S6 there are alot of better options out there which all get Rerolls to hit ;)


Most of the time, yes.

Sometimes the Executioners are the only ones in close combat, and that makes them the logical choice. Especially against 1+ armor saves, it chops the enemy's all the way down to 6.... or none at all, if the Exes have the Razor Standard.

Obviously Witches, Corsars, and Black Guard make better use of Mindrazor than Executioners. But sometimes the Exes are the only game in town...


Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:56 am
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Corsair
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Vulcan wrote:
Searinox Nagharha wrote:
I wouldnt drop Mindrazor on Executioners. with them already striking at S6 there are alot of better options out there which all get Rerolls to hit ;)


Most of the time, yes.

Sometimes the Executioners are the only ones in close combat, and that makes them the logical choice. Especially against 1+ armor saves, it chops the enemy's all the way down to 6.... or none at all, if the Exes have the Razor Standard.

Obviously Witches, Corsars, and Black Guard make better use of Mindrazor than Executioners. But sometimes the Exes are the only game in town...


Even then the attempt to cast Mindrazor (4 dice minimum) is a chance for a miscast. When you already have Lore of Shadow, I'd rather try to cast Miasma and The Enfeebling Foe into that fight, minimising the chance of a miscast. It's rare, that the Mindrazor is your only viable spell to cast.

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Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:34 am
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Warrior

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:02 pm
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I think miasma is fundamental not only for the WS but also for the I.
this will let your exec strike first and may provide a huge advantage!!


Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:09 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
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DarkSky wrote:
Vulcan wrote:
Searinox Nagharha wrote:
I wouldnt drop Mindrazor on Executioners. with them already striking at S6 there are alot of better options out there which all get Rerolls to hit ;)


Most of the time, yes.

Sometimes the Executioners are the only ones in close combat, and that makes them the logical choice. Especially against 1+ armor saves, it chops the enemy's all the way down to 6.... or none at all, if the Exes have the Razor Standard.

Obviously Witches, Corsars, and Black Guard make better use of Mindrazor than Executioners. But sometimes the Exes are the only game in town...


Even then the attempt to cast Mindrazor (4 dice minimum) is a chance for a miscast. When you already have Lore of Shadow, I'd rather try to cast Miasma and The Enfeebling Foe into that fight, minimising the chance of a miscast. It's rare, that the Mindrazor is your only viable spell to cast.


Valid point, that.


Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:47 am
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:32 am
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Skullcrushers worth a lot of points and kill faster than the Daemon Prince. Focus all the RBT shots on them (single shot).

Magic is unreliable, searing doom will always be dispelled so you need a #2 and 3# spell that worth casting. Palgue of Rust, Aibanblades, Trasmutation and Scaly Skin is what you get. And no one except Rust is gonna help you that much in the first turns.

I think that shadows give you better all-round spells. Miasma let them move slowly, and lower init. Both the hexes are good all the game. Pit of Shades is good agains monsters. Mindrazor will be a #1 dispel because on low str high rate blocks mean instadeath of many models in cc.

Lore of Life have nice spells that makes you fish for IF when you need it and low casting values.
They need to dispel the throne of vines or your spells will be low casting/high value spells. +4 thugness? 4++ regen? And so On. Any spell get his usefulness, even the magic missile is good when is at str 6 even if most of the time you will swap it for regen on the unit.

Executioners or CoK with razor banner are your best bet after RBT's.


Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:09 pm
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
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Searing Doom is still useful. If nothing else, it can draw out dispel dice and scrolls so you can get other spells off.

It's like using a hydra against a gunline. You KNOW it's not going to make it through... so you send it in to see what you can sneak in BEHIND it.


Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:25 am
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Trainee Warrior

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:32 am
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Yep I agree with you, against 1+ searing is a MUST dispel i'm only say that metal have spells that are not that impressive (hound suck, robe sometimes is usless 5+ witches are usless 3+ execs is pretty good, aiban is a good buff but nothing so impressive, trasmutation of lead is a terrible spell if we compare it to miasma -1 ws and 1 ap vs - str/ws/init and maybe movement, plague of rust ia average at maximum, final trasm is great against deathstars but still it kills only 1/3 of the unit and 1/6 of chars) i don't say that metal suck, is a good lore, but don't count on it to fix your peoblems with 1+ armors.


Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:47 am
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Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
Posts: 971
I never count on magic to fix ANYTHING. It's far too random to be relied on.

It's a tool in the box, and you usually want more than one tool available in case the first tool does not work.


Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:49 am
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Warrior

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:02 pm
Posts: 59
Thank you all for the advices!
so in the end I have done the tourney and I faced the WOC twice and once the DOC.... and all the three ended in a draw!!!
no comp rule help them too much.. i once finished with only his bsb and Daemon with 1 wound but they were worthy almost half of his army!!!

btw Executioners were really outstanding!
first game he was fielding 2 daemon, 2 chimeras and loads of charriots.
Exec smashed a unit of 24 warriors and a gore charriot, before being eaten by a chimera..
other chimera killed by a doombolt while one deamon destroyed by RBT... in the end i tried for 3 turn to do a single wound to his BSB with the rest of my army withut any success (T5, 1+ armour, 3+ ward save re-rolling 1..).

Second Game I got to know skull crushers! plenty of charriots again.. this time Morathi got a couple of Chariots and the exec got the other ones. I managed to kill 2 skull crashers but they were still 4 on the table.. the champion of my cold one was really heroic as he resisted 3 turn in combat with SC. I killed the daemone and the bsb and morathi decided to go in to the realm of chaos to visit some good old friends (miscast)

Third game: how annoying is the Ward safe of the daemons? and what about regen of nurgle beasts? one of this beast destoryed half of my army... lukcily Purple sun made a bit of justice after all.. here exec killed the lord of change and turned the match in my favour. I was almost beating up myself when I had a huge unit of corsairs (28 more or less) in combat with a daemon prince and lord of change and I "simply" forgot to cast the okkram MR!!!
very funny to note, my crew of the RBT killed a whole unit of bat (or whatever is their name).


anyway DOC are very annoying and i do not want to see another daemon prince in the next 10 games!!!!


Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:21 pm
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Corsair
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:20 pm
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IcemanDraich wrote:
Skullcrushers worth a lot of points and kill faster than the Daemon Prince. Focus all the RBT shots on them (single shot).

Magic is unreliable, searing doom will always be dispelled so you need a #2 and 3# spell that worth casting. Palgue of Rust, Aibanblades, Trasmutation and Scaly Skin is what you get. And no one except Rust is gonna help you that much in the first turns.

I think that shadows give you better all-round spells. Miasma let them move slowly, and lower init. Both the hexes are good all the game. Pit of Shades is good agains monsters. Mindrazor will be a #1 dispel because on low str high rate blocks mean instadeath of many models in cc.

Lore of Life have nice spells that makes you fish for IF when you need it and low casting values.
They need to dispel the throne of vines or your spells will be low casting/high value spells. +4 thugness? 4++ regen? And so On. Any spell get his usefulness, even the magic missile is good when is at str 6 even if most of the time you will swap it for regen on the unit.

Executioners or CoK with razor banner are your best bet after RBT's.


I disagree with your comparison of Metal and Shadow, regarding the fight against high armoured opponents (WoC, Bretonia, Empire).
First: You mention the unreliability status of magic, but make it seem this only counts for Metal and not for Shadow and Life.
Second: You completely leave out the Golden Hounds, which more often than not, are an additional Searing Doom. Lonely DPs can be attacked just as much, vs. Skullcrushers and Demigrphys you can still do 3 damage. Characters in blocks will be attacked, and lookout-sir the hits to the unit. Final Transmutation is viable from turn 1 on also. So you have Searing Doom, Golden Hounds, Plague of Rust and Final Transmutation as viable spells. Blades of Aiban is additionally valid on shooting units as well.
Third: Of course the Shadow spells are better all-around, their casting values are WAY higher than those of Metal. Here comes the unreliability again. With Metal you can cast two viable spells with only four dice. With Shadow you normally need at least seven (on the other hand, if you already drew the opponents dispel scroll a 3+2 magic phase may get you that crucial Mindrazor without a sweat).

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Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:43 pm
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