Vulcan wrote:]My dissent with AoS is simple.
There are plenty of other skirmish games out there. If I wanted to play a skirmish game, I'd be playing one of THEM (probably Warmahordes, because that's what's easiest to find an opponent for). I play WFB to maneuver UNITS, not individual models, and WFB is the easiest game of that type to find an opponent for.
+1
AhrimanJJB wrote:the need to take certain units just so you could have a fun game let alone win
Which were those in a Dark Elf army? All of our units were competitive:
Core
RxBs: competitive
Bleakswords: competitive
Dark Riders: competitive
Dreadspears: competitive (probably the weakest of the bunch, but massed spears have their place)
Witch elves: competitive
Corsairs: competitive (also arguably a weak choice, but more because most dark elf players prefer extremes and corsairs are the middle of the road, all rounder choice (good at everything, excellent at nothing). They definitely had a place and to lack a middle of the road, all rounder choice, would have been a shame, even if they didn't see as much table use as some of their peers.
Special
Cold one Knights: competitive
Blackguard: competitive
Executioners: competitive
Harpies: competitive (probably the weakest of the bunch, but only because they were costed at maybe 1 or 2 points too high)
Hydra: competitive
Shades: competitive
Reaper Bolt Throwers: competitive
Cold one chariots: competitive
Rare
K-Beast: competitive
Warlocks: competitive
Sisters of Slaughter: competitive
Medusae: competitive (probably the weakest of the bunch, but only because most players never really got their head around using them - of course, now the trick to playing them well in AoS is to chase your opponent around the room trying to get them to look into your eyes, which he/she may be able to cover by tugging their specially grown beard over their eyes (you know, the one they grew to try to gain or deny that thane a crucial re-roll) - strategy at its finest, apparently)
Lords and heroes
Dreadlord: competitive
Supreme sorceress: competitive
Beastmaster: competitive
Fleetmaster: I'll give you that one: uncompetitive. But one mistake in an entire book. That's nothing really.
Master: competitive
Sorceress: competitive
Deathhag: competitive
Assassin: competitive
Hellebron: competitive
Malekith: competitive
Morathi: competitive
Malus: competitive
Lokhir: competitive (a bit overpriced perhaps, but in the right combination, he could be powerful)
Shadowblade: competitive (again, a bit overpriced, but used appropriatedly, he could be powerful)
Mounts
Black Dragons: pricey, but a lot of fun. Dragons should not be auto-includes, I liked that they were made for bigger games only really.
Manticores: competitive
Dark pegasi: competitive
Cold one: competitive
Dark Steed: competitive
Cauldron of blood: competitive
Bloodwrack shrine: competitive
An entire book where the overwhelming majority of units and characters were competitive. That's a pretty impressive feat. Yes, there was one cock up (the fleetmaster) and black dragons are a bit pricey, but other than that, it's a good range and all saw use. In fact, I regularly found myself using different units and characters in my army lists, which was a testament to the way that they made every unit different, yet balanced and very selectable.
Compare that with AoS, where core infantry is pointless: why take RxBs when you can take Shades? why take Bleakswords when you can take Blackguard? Why take a Master when you can take a Dreadlord? And so on. That's scarcely a case of all models being useful, in fact it's the opposite. Moreover, we know from GW's own discourse, that they wrote a ton of silly unit rules because want us to feel ashamed into abandoning our old models and pick up playing with the news one exclusively: how's that for encouraging you to play with any model you want and not compelling you into choosing specific ones!
AhrimanJJB wrote:What I would say however is maybe wait to make your mind up for another ~6 months...I will however be posting more and more on this site, as AoS has finally made me want to compile an army again. And to me that cannot be a bad thing.
If you're genuinely here and still posting actively in 6 months, that will indeed be a good thing. I hope to see you then. But forgive me, I'm not yet convinced that you - or any of the suddenly active accounts with previously very low or non-existent post counts - will be. I look forward to being proven wrong.