Logo
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:16 pm



Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Light Magic : Kharibdyss or Cold One Knights ? 

Kharibdyss or Cold One Knights
Kharibdyss 75%  75%  [ 6 ]
Cold One Knights 25%  25%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 8

Light Magic : Kharibdyss or Cold One Knights ? 
Author Message
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:25 pm
Posts: 1003
Location: Delft
Greetings,

I started to use Light Magic and fell in love with it. Especially the spells Birona's Timewarp is a amazing spell. In my list I have 160 spare points and I am doubting between taking a Kharibdyss or a unit of Cold One Knights. Both have great synergy with the Lore of Light spells, especially Timewarp.

The Kharibdyss gets D6 strength 7 hits extra, if all his hits actually hit one model. With weapon skill 5 he hits as 3's most of the time. His initiative 4 also let him strike first against the big things you want him to take down. Normally it is rare that all his 5 attacks all hit, but with Timewarp you really improve his chances. Because of his high WS and I, he is likely to get re-rolls with ASF. With Birona's Timewarp casted on the Kharibdyss he gets 6 attacks with re-roll, likely hitting all of them, therefore +D6 hits. He is also likely wounding most of them because of the strength 7, inflicting 7 - 12 wounds with -4 AS. With Speed of Light (2 dice) you can give him WS and I 10 so he becomes a character killer and might even take out Vampire Lords.

The Cold One Knights are our only heavy cavarly and the Cold Ones add some damage, especially against normal troops. They do however suffer from the 'rubber lance' syndrome or something as they only have one attack which can be failed. As attacks of Cold Ones are at I 2 they come after enemy has hit which result into their loss before they can strike, something we elves don't like. While Birona's Timewarp transforms the Kharibdyss into an elite super-killer, it can transform a small unit of 5 cold one units into a super-tank. As both the knight as cold one gets one extra attack and ASF it adds 10 attacks. With dread knights thats 11 strength 6 attacks followed by 15 strength 4 attacks. That's the same damage output as one unit of 10 black guard and unit of 10 executioners combined, while in this case you have a 2+ armour save and cause fear. Although you already got re-roll for the Cold Ones againt some armies (undead, lizardmen, ogres, orcs & goblins, dwarfs) you can add Speed of Light to grant hitting on 3's with re-rolls. Another synergy with Light magic is Light of Battle making them immune to Stupidity.

So both great options to take ! Therefore I can't decide which one is the better option and hope to get some feedback from the tactical community on this choice.

_________________
The 13th Legion


Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:24 pm
Profile
Black Guard
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:24 am
Posts: 296
I think part of depends on what is in the rest of your army. I normally use both a unit of cold one knights and a kharibdyss with either heavens or light and they both do pretty well but they kinda have different roles for me. However, with no other info, I'd probably go with the kharibdyss, it's a bit more resilient than 5 knights, and the abyssal howl can sometimes help you break steadfast.


Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:36 pm
Profile
PhD in Dark Magic
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:54 am
Posts: 592
Location: The depths of the Black Library
I'd go the Knights, generally. However, as most Light magic spells can be cast as bubbles... you may not need to choose between them.

Pha's Protection is good for both units, but better for the slightly squishier Knights (who are more vulnerable to shooting). Anything that discourages my opponent from firing a cannon at relatively cheap bait such as a Kharibdyss is potentially not going to be worth it.

Speed of Light is decent for both, but probably a bit better for the Knights as it will mean the Cold Ones will hit on 3s.

Light of Battle is a solid buff to address the Kharibdyss's terrible Ld and to provide protection against Stupidity for the Knights. All in all, probably a stronger option for the sea creature, since it's vulnerable to Panic and there are so many other ways of not failing Stupidity tests on the Knights.

Timewarp is better for the Knights, as it makes them more likely to make a charge (hooray for lances!) and provides extra attacks to both elements of the model. Feast of Bones is still far from a guaranteed result with Timewarp, even with rerolls, unless you get Speed of Light off as well (which is unlikely against quality opposition). It's arguably better on the Kharibdyss where you're in protracted combat with a single large opponent's model, but that's a fairly specific set of circumstances. There's also the risk that a Kharibdyss will be facing opponents with better Initiative or who also Always Strike First, which would preclude it from getting re-rolls. There is a small but significant difference between I5 and I6 when it comes to getting ASF re-rolls, particularly where characters are involved.

_________________
"The wrath of a good man is not to be feared. They have too many rules."

"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."


Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:49 am
Profile
Beastmaster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:25 pm
Posts: 334
matey stop saying 'likely' and get your calculator out! and no, cold one knights do not get 'rubber lance' syndrome as they're generally 3+ to hit with a re-roll which is 8/9 attacks hitting.

forget your k-beast's feast of bones, (8/9)^5 (assuming you're hitting on a 3+) is 55% chance. ok, don't forget it, just don't bank on it. or waste power dice on it?


Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:07 pm
Profile
Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
Posts: 980
'rubber lance' refers to poor dice rolls, not poor stats. Since 1's pretty much autofail, when they come up there's just no saving you.


Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:08 am
Profile
PhD in Dark Magic
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:54 am
Posts: 592
Location: The depths of the Black Library
Vulcan wrote:
'rubber lance' refers to poor dice rolls, not poor stats. Since 1's pretty much autofail, when they come up there's just no saving you.


True enough, but when you get to re-roll to hit (only failing on 1 or 2) and re-roll 1s to wound (generally needing 2+ or 3+ only), lances tend to be substantially less rubbery.

_________________
"The wrath of a good man is not to be feared. They have too many rules."

"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."


Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:22 am
Profile
Assassin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:53 am
Posts: 593
I say go for the khari. Your army list is somewhat short on high strength attacks as far as I know. While knights are good in this regard, a khari is even better. :) It is a model that you can park in a unit of knights, provided there is no high strength hero, and it should chew them down eventually.

_________________
The Lost Colony defenders - Rowena's painting log

Alternative Armies - because we can build any army without GW!


Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:55 pm
Profile
Malekith's Personal Guard

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am
Posts: 980
Haagrum wrote:
Vulcan wrote:
'rubber lance' refers to poor dice rolls, not poor stats. Since 1's pretty much autofail, when they come up there's just no saving you.


True enough, but when you get to re-roll to hit (only failing on 1 or 2) and re-roll 1s to wound (generally needing 2+ or 3+ only), lances tend to be substantially less rubbery.


Agreed... but the reason it's called rubber lance is because cavalry has a LOT harder time from recovering from a bad charge than anything else. Loosing S6 for subsequent rounds HURTS if you didn't manage to capitalize on it in the charge.


Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:57 pm
Profile
Malekith's Best Friend
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:19 am
Posts: 2089
Both are solid units but a Kharibdyss is just one cannon away from the dead pile. I'd go with knights.

_________________
Proud supporter of druchii.net
phierlihy@druchii.net


Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:31 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 9 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software